[Doug Ralston]

As you know, in 2015 Chambers Bay will host the US Open. I have not played the course, but it looks absolutely awesome. On the other hand, looking at other US Open courses, it is obvious CB will have to be 'tweaked' to stand challenge to these guys. The USGA will never allow them to shoot any more 63's or to be -20 as winner. Is there anyone else here who would prefer that they NOT host? What do you think Rees will do?

They have 7 years to grow that rough to treetop highs, and shave those greens to 19 stimp. Or else I fear the course will be hard to recognize after the Open.

I suspect this topic has been discussed, but I missed it. Sorry about that. Just wanted to hear concerns for this sweet effort of Jones Jr.

Doug

[Jordan Wall]

Doug,

Chambers Bay would make for a WAY better PGA Championship course.

I dont like the idea of surrounding those holes with lots of rough.
We'll just have to wait and see, though.

Cheers,
Jordan

[John Moore II]

I have never played this course, and only seen a few pictures, but how much tweeking is really necessary with the course playing more than 7500 yards from the back tees? Add in cuts of rough similar to this week at Torrey and then rock hard greens that are rolling 13-14 and surely the course can provide ample challenge as is.

[Garland Bayley]

Jordan,

Are you off your rocker? Have you been paying attention? Did you not notice that the USGA is changing their philosophy on set up? Sure they will narrow things abit, but they will have graduated rough so the really nasty stuff should be where it can get really nasty at Chambers Bay any way. Besides, they won't be growing rough in the multi-acre hazards.

Doug,

Chambers Bay is going to be the best open in the 21st century. If you ever wanted to see an open in a spectacular setting with near ideal weather, then join the USGA and get your ticket requests in the moment they open up.

Jordan,

We thought maybe the Kings Putter guys got tired of you and threw you in the Pacific. Now don't tell me you have been busy with a lady friend, because we all know you make those stories up. 

[Jim Nugent]

How much WILL the USGA have to alter CB for the Open?  Right now, there isn't much rough, is there?  Will they narrow the fairways a lot?  Change the bunkering?

Will Rees get the job?  That will go over well with his brother. 

[John Moore II]

From what I have seen in pictures and from a scorecard, I think the only modifications needed to the course will be done by simply lowering mowing heights on the greens, turning off the water, narrowing the fairways a bit, and fertilizer in the rough.
--I mean the course is nearly 7600 yards with a course rating of 77. I say they just grow the rough in, make 13 a par 4, from the aerial it seems doable. 7600 yds, par 71, grown in rough, exposure to the elements......hmmm....sounds familiar....oh yeah, this year at Torrey Pines. Perhaps a winning combination as is, no change needed.

[Wayne Freeman]

The USGA will get a taste of what is needed for 2015 after having the U.S. Amateur there in 2010.  All I can say is that if you have any chance to get out there in the next couple of years.........do it.  The course is spectacular and will only get better as it fills in.   There are some heroic par 4's as well as some definite birdie holes,  but all in all it should provide lots of thrills. 

[Jordan Wall]

Jordan,

Are you off your rocker? Have you been paying attention? Did you not notice that the USGA is changing their philosophy on set up? Sure they will narrow things abit, but they will have graduated rough so the really nasty stuff should be where it can get really nasty at Chambers Bay any way. Besides, they won't be growing rough in the multi-acre hazards.

Garland,

The only places it can get really nasty at Chambers Bay ARE the multi-acre hazards.

And no, I have not noticed the USGA's change in set up.  Perhaps you could give some examples.

Cheers,
Jordan

[Matt_Cohn]

RTJ would *never* let Rees touch it anyway.

[Jim Adkisson]

The way to make Chambers easier is to grow the rough...this course would make for the greatest British Open in US history!...

Firm and Fast!...let those wild bumps and swales send wayward, wind-driven balls into the waste areas...

[John Moore II]

Jordan,

Are you off your rocker? Have you been paying attention? Did you not notice that the USGA is changing their philosophy on set up? Sure they will narrow things abit, but they will have graduated rough so the really nasty stuff should be where it can get really nasty at Chambers Bay any way. Besides, they won't be growing rough in the multi-acre hazards.

Garland,

The only places it can get really nasty at Chambers Bay ARE the multi-acre hazards.

And no, I have not noticed the USGA's change in set up.  Perhaps you could give some examples.

Cheers,
Jordan

Jordan--The changes are coming from the USGA not simply growing in the rough to look like wheat fields 6 feet off the fairway. The rough gets higher as you move farther away from the fairway. The are also taking the approach to do what makes the course more difficult, and in the case of a place like Pinehurst #2, and some of the green surrounds at Torrey, they do away with rough entirely. As I have said, I have never played Chambers, but the way the USGA and Mike Davis are setting up courses now, I would think that if having no rough in a given area makes missing in that area more penal, expect to see it cut down.

--Again though, 7600 yards, maybe make it par 71, and exposure to the elements on a coast line, how much more difficulty do you need??

[Garland Bayley]

...
The only places it can get really nasty at Chambers Bay ARE the multi-acre hazards.
...

How about left and right on #8?

Check our Mr. Moore's response for more examples. Mike Davis is saying they are going to fast and firm and let them score what they can score, he is not really concerned about their score. Tom Paul is loving the fast and firm they have done in SD.

[W.H. Cosgrove]

I doubt the USGA will make a lot of substantial changes at Chambers.  Some rough in places maybe but the difficulty in Chambers will be with the balling rolling into the soft sandy hazard areas.   Rough might actually make the golf course easier in places!  Chambers should indeed be played more like a British Open. 

Now for those of you who haven't played the golf course since last year, Garland?, you really do not have a solid feel for how much more interesting and difficult the course has become though settling and a general increase in firmness.  If Jordan is still caddying out there he might be able to describe how much more the ball is caroming around the place. 

Only other issue is the fescue on the greens which really doesn't look like it is doing that well.  Repairs  are evident on #4 from the trail above.  Will it become obvious that the greens should be transitioned to poa or will the USGA, Pierce County and theSuperintendent continue to fight the good fight to maintain the fescue?  I would guess that by 2015 those greens will be Poa.

[Sean Leary]

Cos,

How about the fairways? Can they keep them fescue?

[W.H. Cosgrove]

I'm not an agronomist......but as a fellow northwesterner, what would you think? 

No matter what the grasses, can they keep it firm enough to play fast and firm to bring the trouble up close and personal?

[Nyk Pike]

I foresee a few changes and a par of 70 for the US Open.

My guess is #13 & #18 will be converted to par 4s. I am also guessing that a few new tees will be built. Even at 7,585 there are some holes that need to be lengthened to add interest to the holes (ie #11 & 15). I am interested in how #2 will be set up to challenge the pros.

The greens here have had some challenges with the wicked winter and heavy round counts. I predict that they will still be fescue when the USGA conducts their championships.

[John Moore II]

I'm not an agronomist......but as a fellow northwesterner, what would you think? 

No matter what the grasses, can they keep it firm enough to play fast and firm to bring the trouble up close and personal?

If it rains less than normal, yes they can keep it fast. If it rains more than normal, they may struggle to keep it firm and fast. Same thing the R&A deals with at its courses every year. Plus, I am sure Chambers has an outstanding Superintendent who can deal with what is necessary to get the course where it needs to be in preparation for the open.


--Nyk-negative on the changes to 13 and 18. Maybe one of them. Otherwise the inward par is 34 and outward par of 36. Not going to happen.
--As an aside-2010 is a very good year for golf on public access courses. The US Open, US Am, and US Publinx, along with the British Open at St. Andrews and the PGA back at Whistling Straits, are all contested on public access courses. Very good indeed.

[Jordan Wall]

I foresee a few changes and a par of 70 for the US Open.

My guess is #13 & #18 will be converted to par 4s. I am also guessing that a few new tees will be built. Even at 7,585 there are some holes that need to be lengthened to add interest to the holes (ie #11 & 15). I am interested in how #2 will be set up to challenge the pros.

The greens here have had some challenges with the wicked winter and heavy round counts. I predict that they will still be fescue when the USGA conducts their championships.

Nyk,

With the back tee at #11 around 505 yards, what length needs to be added?

Also, with the elements of wind that are always in play at #15 (which is VERY exposed), I'm curious as to how far you think should be added.  I think it would be cool to see a little variety, maybe adding like a 220 tee and then use a 170 tee or so another day.  Isn't the hole just shy of 200 yards right now?

Also, will #12 be played as a par-3 or a par-4?  And, will #5 feature the shorter green in play for any of the rounds?  I've never played to that green or seen it in play, which is interesting.

Cheers,
Jordan

[Doug Ralston]

I was listening to XM Satellite radio, golf channel, and they interviewed Rees. When asked about his inspiration he mentioned his ideas were more from Tillinghast, Mckenzie, and McDonald. He likes multiple option approached and greens designed to challenge based on the nature of the approach.

He sounds like just the man. The Pros all love what he does. I expect to see him at Chambers Bay late 2014.

All kidding aside, is it worth have a Major championship on a nice course if they mess with the design?

Doug

[Jeff Doerr]

This chart shows that Chambers was designed with BIG flexibility in mind.

I'd say play #4 as a Looong par 4 and #12 as a Looong par 3 and the course will be just fine.

About 3870 on the front and 3650 on the back for 35/35 - 70.

[W.H. Cosgrove]

A couple of items

1)Nyk, while this was a relatively tough winter, other courses in the area have experienced the same conditions and higher round counts than Chambers.  Notably the Home Course which sits in a similar position to the water and certainly experiences more rounds than Chambers.  It was planted in Bent, opened a week after Chambers and is in great condition.  Both have talented and qualified superintendents.  The fescue on the putting surfaces at Chambers is struggling.  Begging the question as to whether it is really the appropriate surface.  It is my understanding that The Home Course will indeed be transitioned to Poa.

The fescue makes for a nice variation, I just don't see it surviving as a putting surface in the long run.

2) Jeff.  With #4 as a long par 4 and #12 as an afterthought par 3, and assuming the USGA will continue to seek a driveable par 4, What other hole on the course becomes the reachable 4?  #16?  #5? (the green never used). 

[Jim Nugent]

Jeff Doer, does CB currently have 6 par 5's and 6 par 3's?

[BVince]

I was at Chambers this morning.  This fairways are in great condition and the fescue is starting to grow better in the patchy sandy areas of the dunes.  I was very surprised that they were rolling the greens this morning since they are struggling in spots.  The greens need some attention to address the bare areas.  Overall, it is looking better this year.

I was thinking about the Open setup there and I believe they will attempt to replicate the graduated rough and current TP style setup.  Not sure how well it will work with the fescue fairways but am excited to see it develop over the next few years. 

The fairways are really wide on some holes and I think the USGA will frame them next to the waste areas and make them resonably wide (resembling Torrey Pines).  The course can play so brutally long and there is the ability to make it play very differently each day with using the different tee boxes on each hole.

[Scott Stambaugh]

A couple of items

1)Nyk, while this was a relatively tough winter, other courses in the area have experienced the same conditions and higher round counts than Chambers.  Notably the Home Course which sits in a similar position to the water and certainly experiences more rounds than Chambers.  It was planted in Bent, opened a week after Chambers and is in great condition.  Both have talented and qualified superintendents.  The fescue on the putting surfaces at Chambers is struggling.  Begging the question as to whether it is really the appropriate surface.  It is my understanding that The Home Course will indeed be transitioned to Poa.

The fescue makes for a nice variation, I just don't see it surviving as a putting surface in the long run.

2) Jeff.  With #4 as a long par 4 and #12 as an afterthought par 3, and assuming the USGA will continue to seek a driveable par 4, What other hole on the course becomes the reachable 4?  #16?  #5? (the green never used). 

Fescue= patience.  Still seven years to go.  As these greens mature, a fescue/poa mix will be just fine come 2015.  Look how Bandon Dunes greens have matured.  Also, I just played the Home Course a few weeks ago.  It is in great shape, but remember, those bent greens have been done for quite a while.  They have had a lot of time to mature while the course sat being unused.  The Home Course was a Superintendent's dream- a mature course on opening day.

It seems to me that with the community of tees in the vicinity of #12/#15, a tee on #15 could be used to keep #12 as a reachable par 4.  Although, the thought of #16 being driveable could come at an interesting time in the round...

Scott

[Nyk Pike]

Cos-

I think fescue will be here to stay. I know that other area courses have seen similar round counts and play, but in the thick of February after the announcement we were doing 140+ rounds a day. That is alot of wear for young greens in February.

Thanks to Scott for the reply regarding the age of the greens in comparison.

The lengthening of #15 would be to the 210 yard range. 12 looks to remain a par 4. The hole plays much better as a short par 4 than a long par 3.

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