[Wayne_Kozun]

Yes but can you show up at a daily fee course on Saturday morning at 8 am without a tee time and get off the tee within 30 minutes?  Can you play a morning round on the weekend, have a quick drink with the boys and be home with the family before noon?  Can you stop off after work, play 11 holes until it gets dark and then have dinner while watching the ball game with the boys?  You can do that at a private course for no variable cost.

How much is that worth to you?

It is just like cars - you can buy a Hyundai Accent for less than $11,000.  How can you economically justify paying $30,000 or more for a car when that Accent will get you from point A to point B, likely at a much lower operating cost than that $30,000 car?

[mike_beene]

Having a comfortable place to practice is very important to me.I don't play my home course more than twice a month. Eating the Sat morning breakfast buffet with no one bothering me and then practicing a few hours is vital to my weekly mental health. Plus I have made a lot of good friends over my 15 years at my club.

[Jason Hines]

Hi Rick,

I am on my third club in as many states.  I will give you my two cents in addition to most of accurate posts above.

1.   Cheap monthly dues are not always the best long term solution to your issue.  Sometimes they are the sign of cash flow issue or their facility cannot garner a better price.  IE Quality.   That being sad, you might find yourself wanting to leave after a couple of years and be right back in the same boat you are today.

2.   One of my concerns about joining a club was would I miss playing different courses, to me this issue fades away after you meet new people and get a standing 4 some together.

3.   For myself, once I joined a private club, I don’t think I could ever go back.  Pace of play, convenience, golf minded people (for the most part) and generally better playing conditions.

4.   Always look for a golf club over a country club, I have found one within 15 miles from my home but it has other hang ups.

[John Kavanaugh]

Assistants at private clubs are not the assholes they are at publics.

[Peter Pallotta]

Rick -

Phil's first post I think gets it exactly right. I have a friend, a real numbers guy, who figured it all out to the penny, and now tells everyone who'll listen the reasons why it makes no financial sense whatsoever to belong to a private club.  I understand what he's saying, but he never seems to even consider the intangibles, the desire for and the pleasures of a home club, of being part of and contributing to something bigger than yourself. I told him recently that I was trying to find an inexpensive club/course (probably just a semi private) that I could join for just that reason, and he told me he couldn't understand why I'd want to play most of my golf at one course instead of travelling around and trying new ones all the time. I didn't have an answer for him....

Peter   

[John Kavanaugh]

Nobody asked Norm why he didn't drink at different bars or even at home where it would be cheaper.

[John Kavanaugh]

Peter,

Your friend is the kind of guy other members don't need.  He sounds like the guy who would take a cart to the range and play three holes saying it didn't constitute a rental.  Numbers guys are douches.

[Peter Pallotta]

Nobody asked Norm why he didn't drink at different bars or even at home where it would be cheaper.

You're right about that, John.  See, my friend doesn't drink much either. No way he'd understand Norm throwing away his money at "Cheers"...

Peter

[mike_beene]

Less graphically,in my area daily fee usually equals taking a cart.Putting the purity of the game aside for a moment,if I am going to be on a golf course for four hours there better be some exercise involved.John,unisex reminds me of a place that gives bad haircuts.

[Mike_Cirba]

This is certainly a case where half a loaf is most assuredly not better than none.

[John Kavanaugh]

This is surely a case where half a loaf is most certainly not better than none.

It's summer and I'm going through underwear by the sleeve.

[David Stamm]

Rick, I understand your dilemma, although most of the muni's in my area are better courses than alot of the daily fee's. I'm still trying to figure out if it makes sense for me. In general, the private clubs I can afford are really not better design wise than the courses I've been playing. Of course the conditions at the clubs are better and the ability to just show up and go is very appealing. In my neck of the woods, there is a huge jump from the run of the mill clubs and the heavy hitters. Most modest clubs will have a junior or "young professional" program that's good until you are 44. Typically these range from $1500 initiation $300 per month to about $20,000 and $650 per month. It really jumps from there, ranging from about $40,000/$600 per month to $300,000/$1200. There are not that many public courses that I like playing in my immediate area, so playing one course isn't that big a deal. Let me know what you do so I can take notes!

[Steve_Lovett]

Rick, I understand your dilemma, although most of the muni's in my area are better courses than alot of the daily fee's. I'm still trying to figure out if it makes sense for me. In general, the private clubs I can afford are really not better design wise than the courses I've been playing. Of course the conditions at the clubs are better and the ability to just show up and go is very appealing. In my neck of the woods, there is a huge jump from the run of the mill clubs and the heavy hitters. Most modest clubs will have a junior or "young professional" program that's good until you are 44. Typically these range from $1500 initiation $300 per month to about $20,000 and $650 per month. It really jumps from there, ranging from about $40,000/$600 per month to $300,000/$1200. There are not that many public courses that I like playing in my immediate area, so playing one course isn't that big a deal. Let me know what you do so I can take notes!

A "Junior" Membership which lasts to age 44 is extraordinary.  I like hearing an age like 44 as "young" or "junior"!

[David Stamm]

Rick, I understand your dilemma, although most of the muni's in my area are better courses than alot of the daily fee's. I'm still trying to figure out if it makes sense for me. In general, the private clubs I can afford are really not better design wise than the courses I've been playing. Of course the conditions at the clubs are better and the ability to just show up and go is very appealing. In my neck of the woods, there is a huge jump from the run of the mill clubs and the heavy hitters. Most modest clubs will have a junior or "young professional" program that's good until you are 44. Typically these range from $1500 initiation $300 per month to about $20,000 and $650 per month. It really jumps from there, ranging from about $40,000/$600 per month to $300,000/$1200. There are not that many public courses that I like playing in my immediate area, so playing one course isn't that big a deal. Let me know what you do so I can take notes!

A "Junior" Membership which lasts to age 44 is extraordinary.  I like hearing an age like 44 as "young" or "junior"!

Steve, this is something that just started happening as of late. It used to be 40, and then quite a few courses upped the ante this past year. I'm not complaining!

[John Kavanaugh]

David,

How close are you to Torrey and their mens league or Balboa Park?  Or are you close enough to play with the GCAers at Rustic?   Throw Pajaro in the mix and I have been very impressed with California public golf.

[David Stamm]

David,

How close are you to Torrey and their mens league or Balboa Park?  Or are you close enough to play with the GCAers at Rustic?   Throw Pajaro in the mix and I have been very impressed with California public golf.

Torrey used to be a decent drive for me, no more than 20 minutes. The last 10 years have changed things dramatically. From where I live now, it's a 45 minute ordeal because of the traffic. And Torrey isnl the most accessible course in town either. Balboa is perhaps another 5-10 mins drive time. The waiting list for the Torrey men's club is quite long, last time I checked. Not sure about Balboa, but Pete is a member of it so he would know. In either case, they are far for me (I live in North San Diego County) and it actually takes me less time to drive to south Orange County, but only by a little. I play Rustic every couple of months. It's a 2 hour plus drive each way. I like Pajaro as well, but that's a little far for me.

[Peter Wagner]

Another thing I like about private clubs is the absence of information polution.  Just today I took a dump in a unisex bathroom that had a sign in front of the toilet that said "Do not flush sanitary napkins" it pissed me off to the point that I lost concentration and left half a loaf in my stink hole.  You don't see signs like that at a private club because they know the ladies have enough class not to do that kind of thing.

John,
If there was ever a post that needed emoticons it would be this one.
- Peter

[Dan Herrmann]

Rick,

My primary example is Rock Creek. And, my information may be a little dated. They have done some building since I looked into it.

Rock Creek sure isn't worth even $150/month.    Most Portland area clubs are a lot more spendy than that.  I had two friends that were members there in the 1990's, and they really didn't like it - the course was always very wet, houses are everywhere, and the course design is uninspired.  In the spirit of fairness, this was 15 years ago - much may have changed.
---------------------

Let me give you the singular reason that brought me to join my first club, Riverside (OR - H. Chandler Egan) in Portland.

I'm playing at Heron Lakes about 2pm on a Sunday afternoon.  Not terribly crowded.  (Before I go further, let me add that I enjoy the original course at Heron Lakes - an excellent muni designed by RTJ, Jr.)

I'm a single, and I was paired with a nice guy that turned out to be a dentist.  Good player too - we decided to play off the back tees and hit good tee shots.

We're 20 yards down the fairway when the starter asks to wait - he has a twosome he needs to pair up.  No problem - right?

We introduced ourselves, and discovered that it was the first time these guys had played in 3 years.  They proceed to try to play from the back tees at which point the dentist suggests that they might want to play one of the other sets of tees.

Bad idea.  The guy throws down his bag, starts cursing at the dentist, and goes to get the starter to complain.  Well, we'd seen enough - we hit the road, walking very fast down that first fairway.

We saw them later on an adjacent fairway with no shirts on, hitting their shots merrily 50-100 yards while golfers queued up behind them.

I owe a lot to those guys, for they're the ones that introduced me to the joys of private golf.

[Rick Sides]

Dave,
Your exactly correct.  Some clubs offer a membership price until you reach a certain age - 40ish- then it jumps up dramatically.  Where I am at in South Jersey, most private clubs are all country clubs which means you get pools, tennis, etc. but I really don't use any of those amenities.  I wish there were more golf clubs.  

From what I gather from this topic, most people make good points about the privacy factor that private clubs offer and the social networks.  I guess my stumbling block is paying what amounts to two car payments a month 600-700 dollars- to play at a private course.  I could understand if these private courses were unbelievable, but most of the local private courses are not that much better than daily fee.

[Rick Sides]

Great story Dave.  Sometimes public golf looks like something out of the Jerry Springer Show! 

[Scott Szabo]

Peter,

Your friend is the kind of guy other members don't need.  He sounds like the guy who would take a cart to the range and play three holes saying it didn't constitute a rental.  Numbers guys are douches.

Being a CPA myself, I take offense to that last comment

[Dan Herrmann]

Rick - that's nothing - I remember playing at Broadmoor in Portland one time.  A threesome is ahead of us on a par 3 and is taking FOREVER to play.  One of the guys in our group shouts, "Come on, guys!".

So these guys start cursing and cursng at us and to "punish" us, they start driving their golf carts all over the green.

Public golf in Portland can be very, very surreal!

[John Kavanaugh]

I guess I should give a reality check to this kid so he doesn't get in over his head.  In April I spent $1478.94 in addition to my dues at the club where I play the most.  Whatever you think you are going to spend on booze, food, carts, caddies, shirts, wedges, balls, tournaments, lodging and guests you better double it long term and triple it when the course is new and fresh.  note:  Set up the bill to come directly to you at work and lie, lie, lie to your wife about the costs.

[Mike Hendren]

I guess I should give a reality check to this kid so he doesn't get in over his head.  In April I spent $1478.94 in addition to my dues at the club where I play the most.  Whatever you think you are going to spend on booze, food, carts, caddies, shirts, wedges, balls, tournaments, lodging and guests you better double it long term and triple it when the course is new and fresh.  note:  Set up the bill to come directly to you at work and lie, lie, lie to your wife about the costs.

Shivas, NOW do you understand why Barney paves roads for a living?

[JohnV]

As a former member of Rock Creek (or Slop Creek as we called it), I can say that $150 sounds surprising low, but I'll believe it.  I was paying $125 in 1992 when I moved to Pumpkin Ridge.  If the dues have only gone up $25 in 16 years, it says a lot about the place.  I think the dues went from $90 to $125 between 1982 and 1992.

The course was ok as long as you didn't fight a hook (OB left on 17 holes).  The men's club was a lot of fun and more organized than Pumpkin Ridge's ever got.  It made it fun to go out every weekend. 

To me the main benefit of being a member of a private course was the ability to go out after work and play.  Hannastown was a problem for me for that reason because it was 35 miles from home and work and so I didn't do it enough.  Without that, it reallyo wasn't worth it.

Obviously if you have a spouse and kids who play, club membership can make a lot more sense.

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