[Bart Bradley]

Matt,

I live in Bristol and played the Virginian this afternoon.  I have seen your entire list and they all are excellent in their own ways.  I agree that if your course can hang with that list, you will have one special place.  Diamond Creek has some beautiful holes/vistas as well...have you been there?

Bart

[Matt Varney]

No I have never played it befor and I heard the same thing about Diamond Creek.  Isn't that Wayne H's private course in the mountains of NC?  I talked to Kenny Kerr about a month ago and he asked me to come up and play The Virginian in May.

 

[Gerry B]

speaking of british columbia here are 2 examples - they are located approx 30 miles apart:

Capilano - which is built on the side of a mountain in west vancouver - terrific
Furry creek - one of the worst courses on the planet which has been mentioned on gca before

banff and jasper would also qualify as great mountain courses

[Allan Long]

Matt,

I can't comment on Wade Hampton or Grandfather, but as far as Cascades is concerned, the first thing that struck me was the setting--I couldn't imagine it getting old. You've got the Allegheny's so close you could reach out and touch them, yet the course doesn't sit on too severe a piece of land--the terrain is perfect. I've played other mountain courses where the topography of the land didn't lend itself to great golf holes, but that is not the case at Cascades.

The vistas are wonderful, but you can't get so caught up in them that you lose concentration. The course does get tight in spots, but never overwhelms you into thinking you can't hit a fairway. Although the course is not overly long, it does present a stern test, and you can use the contours of the course to navigate your way through. The conditioning is immaculate, but I don't think my opinion of the course would change if that were not the case. One other point that struck me was that although the course could, and has held championship events, it is very playable for a less skilled player and won't beat up a higher handicap.

[Bart Bradley]

Matt:

That is great...the course is just now coming to good condition...we have had a strange Spring.  When are you coming?  I hope you enjoy it.  Diamond Creek is about 10 minutes from Grandfather just outside of Banner Elk, NC...Yes, it is Wayne H's course ...a Fazio design.  No housing on the course, very private, similar in atmosphere to the Olde Farm or the Honors.

Bart

[Lawrence Largent]

Diamond Creek isn't in the same league as Grandfather or Linville. If you could some how duplicate the terrian at Grandfather with a Dye Design you would have something special. One of the great things about Linville and Grandfather is that you don't have dramatic elevation changes. I'm not sure of anyone else's opinion but I'm just not a big fan of watching my ball stay in the air for 20 seconds and watching it plug 400 feet below me. The Virginian would be 100 times better if Fazio would have stayed away from so many elevated tee shots.

Lawrence

[Matt Varney]

Bart,

I am not sure when but soon I was talking to one of my buddies today and we are planning on bringing a group up maybe we might have an open slot and you could complete a foursome.  Are you a member of The Virginian?  I am bringing our clubhouse architect and our director of planning to see the feel and ambience of the place and the setting with the golf course and great clubhouse.

Let me know if you want to play - I have never played Grandfather but, it is supposed to be one of the finest examples of mountain golf course architecture like Homestead Cascades.

[Matt Varney]

Lawrence,

That is exactly what we are doing working with Pete & P.B. Dye to design a mountain golf course that has only about 80 feet of elevation change throughout this plateau area on the 5,000 acres and most of the holes are easy to walk. 

Pete & P.B. have this amazing ability to visualize things you just can't imagine and then they start working and all of sudden the golf holes open up and with tweaking, finish shaping, green complex and strategic placement of bunkers the hole is designed and you say wow!

Let me take some progress photos and I will post them on GCA better yet, this is a good time to fire up the website www.dyecourse.com so I can start posting these images for the people interested in great design to see them and make comments.

MDV 

[Bart Bradley]

Bart,

I am not sure when but soon I was talking to one of my buddies today and we are planning on bringing a group up maybe we might have an open slot and you could complete a foursome.  Are you a member of The Virginian?  I am bringing our clubhouse architect and our director of planning to see the feel and ambience of the place and the setting with the golf course and great clubhouse.

Let me know if you want to play - I have never played Grandfather but, it is supposed to be one of the finest examples of mountain golf course architecture like Homestead Cascades.

Matt:

Yes, I am a member of the Virginian and would be happy to help show you around, if the time suits.  I agree with you about GGCC.  Let me know.

Bart

[Matt Varney]

Bart,

Send me your e-mail address or phone number and I will call you when we are planning a trip up to play The Virginian.  How far is Grandfather from The Virginian?  We might leave early and visit both places the same day.

[Bart Bradley]

I sent you a personal message with my email...see the link on the top of your screen.  Hope you all have a wonderful time.

Bart

[Lester George]

Matt,

If you are coming to Virginia, stop by Ballyhack.  90 minutes from the Virginian and I think you see my version of "Mountain Golf" in progress.

Lester

[Ulrich Mayring]

I don't know what the definition of mountain course is. Can anyone help me out there? Is that just any old course that is located in an area some people call "the mountains"? Wikipedia says there is not even a clear definition of "mountain".

Here are some pictures, are any of these mountain courses and if yes, what makes them so?





Elevation of all of these courses is below 2000 feet (600 meters).

Ulrich

[Art Roselle]

I played Linville yesterday (badly) and it is just a great all around experience.  I don't think I have have ever heard of anyone not liking Linville, from 85 year old men to women to 20 handicappers to scratch players.  It is not terribly hard for a very good player, but they love it anyway.   It is a great example (IMO) of why "easy" should not mean "bad".

[Matt Varney]

Lester,

I just drove up and down I-81 visiting family up in NVA.  I wish I had known about Ballyhack because last year I left early from Knoxville and stopped in to meet with Donald Steel to tour The Highland Course at Primland.  Its nice and has some very good holes and a clean routing that works very well with the property they had to work with on top of the mountains.

Send me an e-mail with your contact information so I can schedule a time in the coming months to come up and meet with you plus I would love to see Kinloch in person.

Does Ballyahck have a website yet?

Matt

[Jimmy Muratt]

Matt,

Ballyhack's website is:  www.ballyhackgolfclub.com

Lester and crew are doing some exciting things with this project....

[Matt Varney]

Lester,

I checked out the Ballyhack website sweet project and it looks like a great piece of land to work with plus I watched some fo the videos.  I would love the opportunit to come up and see the course this summer or fall once you have completed all the shaping and grassing.

I love the setting very nice makes you feel comfortable.  I just wish I had known about this project because I drove up I-81 to NVA to visit family just 2 weeks ago to play in a golf tournament.  It would have been easy to jump on 581 and come over and take a look for about an hour to see the property.

Matt

[Jim Nugent]

Ulrich, can't give you a definition of a mountain course, but am curious which course is in your first picture.
 

[Greg Tallman]

Matt:

As a member of Grandfather Golf and Country Club the answer is simply Yes...that is what I like about it    but then again I am a homer.

Bart

Bart... had the good fortune tpo spend a summer at Grandfather... still amongst my favorite courses anywhere... except the third green perhaps!

[Ulrich Mayring]

First picture is Passeier Golf in South Tyrol (Italy).

Ulrich

[John Chilver-Stainer]

Ulrich,

A fair question - I think you’ve answered the question yourself - I would also define mountain courses as golf courses in the mountains based on Dan's argument “vistas, vistas, vistas”

In the Swiss Alps where I live I’ve constructed a number of “Alpine” courses. Interestingly or uninterestingly the majority are on relative flat terrain on plateaus in elevated regions.

Out here an Alpine course would be characterised as being at a relative high altitude - 1000m above sea level or higher. The highest one I know of in the Alps is Pila G.C in the Val d’Aosta at 2300m above sea level. There are at least 3 or 4 above 2000m in the Alps.

The differing characteristics to lowland courses could be

- spectacular mountain vistas,
- thin air (the ball travels further),
- different grass types (fescues, poa supina),
- wind - often changing direction at midday,
- cool clean air (a popular alternative to the hot dusty valleys in summer).
- some unusual “drop shots”
- fir trees - hopefully not blocking the vista
- a whole lot of quirky holes layouts which are unavoidable but belong to “Alpine Golf Courses.”
- usually 9-Holes due to lack of available space

Crans in Switzerland is one of the stops on the European Tour. The championship course is situated at 1500m above sea level. Conveniently the top pros treat the distances in meters as if they were in yards to compensate for the 10% increase in ball flight due to the thin air.

I always enjoy discovering a new alpine course as they usually have something unique about them.

[Wade Whitehead]

I'm lucky to live in Roanoke.

For the ultimate mountain golf experience without panoramic vistas, play the Cascades.

For the ultimate with them, play Primland.

Of course, Ballyhack will give both a run for their money.

WW

[Doug Ralston]

I'm lucky to live in Roanoke.

For the ultimate mountain golf experience without panoramic vistas, play the Cascades.

For the ultimate with them, play Primland.

Of course, Ballyhack will give both a run for their money.

WW

And for a sensational mountain course, with vistas, for $40 instead of $200, play Eagle Ridge at Yatesville Lake State Park, KY. I once again assert it will compare favorably with all these for 1/5 the cost.

Matt:

You can get to the KY State Parks courses at Dale Hollow SP, Grayson Lake SP, and Yatesville Lake SP. Please do so. Sometimes cheap treats will surprise you and be just as good as the real [expensive] thing. And since ER and Hidden Cove [Grayson] at just 40 miles apart, you should easily play both.

Doug who keeps trying!

[Matt Varney]

Doug,

Thanks for the tip on the KY State Park courses.  I was planning to play som eof them this summer like Wasioto Winds so these others just add to the trip.

Matt

[Matt_Ward]

Matt V:

Just quick two places that come to mind ... assuming elevation of at least 5,000+ feet - I would mention the qualities of Glenwild in Park City, UT - one of the best TF layouts I have ever played.

From a semi-private perspective I would mention the work Greg Norman did with his layout at Red Sky Ranch in Wolcott, CO. Well done and quite fun to play.

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