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Matt Varney

Mountain Golf Poll
« on: May 14, 2008, 11:13:03 PM »
Guys,

I live in Tennessee and we are currently working with a design team (I won't mention any names but they are talked about on GCA) on a new golf course in the Cumberland Mountains of Tennessee that is coming together really nice.

This is a poll question - What is your perfect mountain golf experience?

Heavily Wooded, Rolling & Natural, Wild & Rugged, Manicured with Long Views?

This group is a great sounding board for getting a great look on a course that will have all bent tees, fairways and greens with fescue bluegrass rough before getting tall with native grasses and broomsedge and wildflowers.  Oh yeah and tons of natural rock features.

I look forward to you responses!

MDV
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Bill_McBride

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Re: Mountain Golf Poll
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2008, 11:31:54 PM »
Wild and rugged is the ticket.

Kingsley Club.  Black Mesa.
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Matt Varney

Re: Mountain Golf Poll
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2008, 11:40:02 PM »
Bill,

That is one vote for wild and rugged we are on the right track for sure. 

Keep the votes coming guys if you can drive down I-75 into Tennessee you are going to have a chance to play this course by Spring 2009.  I will spill the beans and tell GCA - The design team is Pete & P.B. Dye.  We gave them some great property with ltons of trees, long views and nice elevation changes and you should see what these golf holes look like that are being shaped.  This is going to be a really great golf course that will only play around 7,100 from the tips.
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Doug Ralston

Re: Mountain Golf Poll
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2008, 11:42:40 PM »
Matt;

I assume you are referring to the 'Rarity Mountain' project? Totally private?

Doug
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Matt Varney

Re: Mountain Golf Poll
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2008, 11:48:48 PM »
Doug,

Not private a resort and we are going to also have a championship sporting clays facility away from the property so we can offer golf, shooting and don't forget the Clinch River is some of the best trout tailwaters in the southeast.

You will be able to play hell I will even take you on the property and show you around if you interested and want to see the progress.
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Mike Sweeney

Re: Mountain Golf Poll
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2008, 06:09:05 AM »
Quote from: Matt Varney on May 14, 2008, 11:13:03 PM

Heavily Wooded, Rolling & Natural, Wild & Rugged, Manicured with Long Views?


At the risk of being accused of joining his fan club, I do love the long vistas and rugged look of Doak's Rock Creek project.

The mountains around Taconic are heavy forest, but the course interior is fairly wide open with long vistas which again I prefer. However it could still use some trimming to open up the vistas.

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Matt Varney

Re: Mountain Golf Poll
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2008, 08:26:22 AM »
Mike,

I would agree room of the tee so you can play with rolling fairways is nice.  I still prefera more rugged look around the edges to frame the design of the holes along with using natural features like rock outcroppings and of course great bunkering.

How do you add photos within your posts?

MDV
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Doug Ralston

Re: Mountain Golf Poll
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2008, 10:46:13 AM »
Matt;

At some point this year we will surely come to S KY to play Wasioto Winds, Dale Hollow, and Woodlake [a fun piece, even if it is in TN  ;)], and I will contact you if we can see Rarity. Certainly interested in seeing what is going up there.

Question: When is the projected course opening?

Doug

PS: For bass fishing and golf, Dale Hollow is awesome!
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Kalen Braley

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Re: Mountain Golf Poll
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2008, 11:04:55 AM »
Lakota Canyon would be tops on my list of what I've played for courses that fit this description. 
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Adam Clayman

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Re: Mountain Golf Poll
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2008, 11:49:53 AM »
Matt, Typical mtn. golf implies a preponderance of vista tees. If thats the case I'd encourage something more along the lines of a manicured presentation. Reason being, high teeing grounds can make even a 100 yard fairway seem narrow. Looking for balls all day, if the look is ragged, will easily wear on your clientele.


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"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Wyatt Halliday

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mountain Golf Poll
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2008, 12:39:51 PM »
Quote from: Matt Varney on May 14, 2008, 11:13:03 PM
This is a poll question - What is your perfect mountain golf experience?

Matt,

You mixed the perfect cocktail--Golf, trout, and sporting clays?? Where is the dotted line?
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Dan Herrmann

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Re: Mountain Golf Poll
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2008, 12:52:23 PM »
Vistas, vistas, vistas.   One of golf's real joys is a well struck tee shot that seems to hang in the air forever as you watch it seemingly soar out into the mountain air.
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Matt Varney

Re: Mountain Golf Poll
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2008, 02:10:51 PM »
Guys,

I have a ton of pictures that I took in Mid-March showing progress on the bent grass and fescue/bluegrass rough growing.  If I could find a way to post about 10 images in a thread I would love to get your thoughts on what you think.  I would like to take some new updated photos in the coming weeks and post them so you can see the front 9 totally shaped and planted so the grass can really start growing this spring and summer.

Pete & P.B. Dye are fun to work with and they are creating some great golf holes on a really good site with nice views that required some blasting and earth moving but they have shaped the holes to look really natural.  Call me (865) 300-9660 if you all want to take a ride to the mountain to see how this project is coming along. 

MDV
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Richard Choi

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Re: Mountain Golf Poll
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2008, 02:21:37 PM »
The best "mountain" course I know is the Olympic Course at Gold Moutain in Bremerton, Wa.

They hosted USGA Publinx championship a couple of years ago.

A great use of topography with lots of elevation changes that provide plenty of drama while keeping the fairways wide open and not having too many trees come into play.
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George Freeman

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Re: Mountain Golf Poll
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2008, 02:25:46 PM »
Rolling & Natural AND Wild & Rugged
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Mayhugh is my hero!!

"I love creating great golf courses.  I love shaping earth...it's a canvas." - Donald J. Trump

Bob Jenkins

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Re: Mountain Golf Poll
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2008, 02:29:06 PM »
Matt,

We have many mountain courses up here in B.C. but they differ greatly depending on whether they are built in a valley or on the side of a mountain.

For example, Whistler has three courses. Two of them, Whistler Golf Club (Palmer/Seay) and Nicklaus North, are relatively flat, having been built in the valley between the mountains. The third, Chateau Whistler (RTJII), is built on the side of Blackcomb Mountain and has very significant vistas, elevation changes etc. Banff, as well, is for the most part quite flat but it is the vistas of the surrounding Rockies,  that make it so spectacular (along with the design).

If the course has significant elevation changes it would tend to be much more wild and rugged simply because it is more likely you will be encountering a lot more rock, ravines and streams you will have to build around. There would also presumably be significantly fewer routing options on the side of a mountain than in the valleys.

The mountain valley courses tend to be more manicured with the long views of the surrounding mountains. Nicklaus North is a good example.

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Matt Varney

Re: Mountain Golf Poll
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2008, 02:31:16 PM »
George,

Thanks for your vote on Natural, Rolling, Rugged and Wild.  I think we are on the right track but, you want to appeal to the senses visually standing on the tee.  Tbe course design is coming along nicely you can just enhance it so much more with proper presentation and clean lines of play so that each of the golf holes are challenging, memorable and stay with you long after the round.

MDV
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Tim Leahy

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Re: Mountain Golf Poll
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2008, 04:51:17 PM »
The Golf Club at Bear Dance, south of Denver has the views and elements your looking for in a mountain course.
Also Raven at Three Peaks west of Denver in the Rockies is a beautiful mountain course.
Near North Lake Tahoe in Truckee, CA is a very good public course, Coyote Moon, that makes very good use of mountain terrain and woods with some nice vistas.
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I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

mike_beene

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Re: Mountain Golf Poll
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2008, 06:17:29 PM »
Matt,excuse my geographical ignorance,but how far from NC is this?My father-in-law lives at Little Switzerland,about 45 minutes north of Asheville.Are you within a few hours drive?Will course be walkable?
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Matt Varney

Re: Mountain Golf Poll
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2008, 06:23:18 PM »
Mike,

The Dye Course at Rarity Mountain is located just off I-75 in East Tennessee about 4 miles from the TN / KY border.  We have a dedicated interchange directly off the interstate that is Exit 156 Rarity Mountain Road. 

If you are coming over from Asheville you are about 2.5 hours away.  You would take I-40 West to Knoxville then go North on I-75.  Call me (865) 300-9660 if you want to see the progress we are making on the course.

MDV
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mike_beene

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Re: Mountain Golf Poll
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2008, 06:29:34 PM »
Thanks,Matt.I will save this info.I will be visiting sometime this summer and if I get a day and it works for you would love to drive over.
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Allan Long

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Re: Mountain Golf Poll
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2008, 06:35:44 PM »
My perfect mountain golf experience would be the Homestead (Cascades). It is not missing one element for a great day of golf.
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I don't know how I would ever have been able to look into the past with any degree of pleasure or enjoy the present with any degree of contentment if it had not been for the extraordinary influence the game of golf has had upon my welfare.
--C.B. Macdonald

Matt Varney

Re: Mountain Golf Poll
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2008, 07:28:21 PM »
Allan,

I agree with you about the Homestead Cascades.  What about Wade Hampton and Grandfather Mountain?  What do you like the most about these courses the setting, the vistas, the design, the movement, the contouring, the conditioning or is it all the natural features like the rocks, trees and of course the views?

MDV 
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Bart Bradley

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Re: Mountain Golf Poll
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2008, 08:00:03 PM »
Matt:

As a member of Grandfather Golf and Country Club the answer is simply Yes...that is what I like about it  ;)  but then again I am a homer.

Bart

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Matt Varney

Re: Mountain Golf Poll
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2008, 08:06:00 PM »
Bart,

I have a short list of courses in our region that are very special and unique.  If I use this list for inspiration and we come very close to this level of perfection we have done a really good job on our new course working the Dye's.

Olde Farm
The Honors
The Virginian
Wade Hampton
Grandfather Mountain
Homestead Cascades
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