[Tim Leahy]

Jed,
I here you've been playing Matt Cohn straight up, so I know you're a sandbagger!
That 74 is impressive, where was that? And what happened with that 95?
Istn't GHIN wonderful?

[Grant Saunders]

This course is referenced  on the DMK website as having required massive earthworks.

this is a piece directly from the site:

"Scheduled to open in 2007, the project has proved monumental, not only as a learning experience for Tom, but also in terms of earthmoving: the creation of Stonebrae required the shifting of 10 million cubic yards of muck. "

I'm not sure if that is a final figure for the project, but even at half of that number it is still an incredibly large amount to shift.

[Jed Peters]

Jed,
I here you've been playing Matt Cohn straight up, so I know you're a sandbagger!
That 74 is impressive, where was that? And what happened with that 95?
Istn't GHIN wonderful?

I would never play Matt straight up. He'd whup my ass.

74 at Morgan Creek.

Sometimes anyone can shoot a bad round. Just ask Kenny Perry.

[Wayne_Freedman]

Tim,

Four per side would be suicide.
That's why the GHIN Gods created flights.

l prefer straight-up...for quarters. It's never about the money.

 

For a 14.6 index, quite possibly.
Play 'em both.
Then decide.

For a 5.5, I see quite a few 80's. I'll take 4 a side and play you anywhere you like, Cache Creek, TPCSF or even Richmond.

[Jed Peters]

l prefer straight-up...for quarters. It's never about the money.

How noble of you.

For me, I like playing for money. Not that you asked.

[Wayne_Freedman]

Then you should turn pro immediately.

[Tim Leahy]

Jed,
I appreciate the offer, but I am closer in age and sensibility to Wayne. I don't think I would gain a big advantage making him not play all the way back like with you young guys. I will stick with quarters and bragging rights over the big money. Hope to match scorecards with you guys in the near future at some NoCal GCA event.

[Jed Peters]

Then you should turn pro immediately.

No thanks. Money games at the club are good for me.

[Wayne_Freedman]

We're way off topic, now, but I always feel awkward taking or paying money unless its a two dollar Nassau, or less. 

As a friend once said, "Never play for big money because it can ruin good friendships."
He's right. I've seen it happen.


A handshake and a beverage are fine with me. Better, actually.

[Jed Peters]

We're way off topic, now, but I always feel awkward taking or paying money unless its a two dollar Nassau, or less. 

As a friend once said, "Never play for big money because it can ruin good friendships."
He's right. I've seen it happen.


A handshake and a beverage are fine with me. Better, actually.

That's precisely why the day's big winner always buys lunch and drinks for everyone else afterwords. Call in unwritten (well, now written) guy code.

[Wayne_Freedman]

For the record, here is a brief review and slideshow of the place.

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/sports/pro/golf&id=6136188

[Matt_Cohn]

Looks like a b---- of a course for spectating, no?

[Robert "Cliff" Stanfield]

I dont want to get meurdered here but from the look of the land in the photos I cant help but think of Gullane #1 and #2.

I know the bunkering and complexes seem more modern but it looks as if it rolls with the range of th alndscape similar to Gullane.  And f you have been to Gullane....the hills afford wonderful views of Edinburgh and the firth.

Go ahead and fire the bullets.  I am just lookng at topography in the pictures and how the holes sit into the landscape.  I skipped all the meaningless dribble of my ability to assess is better than yours yada yada.

I just think the course looks pretty good from my laptop.  Unfortunately I am inside and in GA and not SF playing this course.

[Tom Huckaby]

Cliff:

I'm chuckling because this course is as much like Gullane as I am like Tiger Woods.  And I'm a short fat white guy.

 

I guess each course does climb hills, and offer views.  But the similarities really do end there.

And yes, I have been to Gullane.

TH

[Robert "Cliff" Stanfield]

TH-Congrats you got your 1562nd post.

I have not been to the SF course but I do like to see the posts on here that include pictures of places I have yet to visit.  Just like many have stated pictures rarely tell the truth of the gc.  So thanks for eliquently describing the course for me.  I am guessing from other posts its topo is like Braids #1-New Discussion Thread?ha just kidding.

By no means do I intend to draw a direct connection to Gullane and I am sure it is not even close to Gullane.  My email stated that it made me "think" of Gullane from the pics.  The pics/architecture seems to be influenced by a designer that has been to the other side of the pond and even studied a few of the east coast courses designed by the greats?  Thats refreshing....many architects attempt this and I am clapping.

Do I know by looking at the pics that the cart paths are everywhere and that the distances between tees and greens are long?  Nope.   I am sure that the cart paths and many other issues will conitnue to confirm that its not even close to Gullane.  Wait Gullane has no paths?

Do I know if the routing is bad from the pics? Nope.  Maybe you can discuss that with me so I can be enlightened for the better instead of allowing me to be guilty for looking at some pics at work and dreaming about courses that might be better that some of the available tracts in GA that are designed as modern pimples!

Sure wish we had more Cuscowillas closer to the Atlanta suburbs or designs that even try to capture some of Gullanes romance.  I was hoping that this SF course had a chance.

I will have to dig from my pics but I have a few from Gullane that afford that similar view from the tee and elevation.  Just as you respond in such a simple way stating each course does climb hills, and offer views....I chuckle.   As we say in the South GA too much after a round, that course is flat and boring!ha

I am glad you have been to Gullane.  And I will take your response to heart as a man that understands that there are really only a few "Gullanes" around the world, and I appreciate your fervor?  Now that I think about it there may not be any other Gullanes...worth another thread to name a few?

Its been awhile since I have posted or visited the site with regularity but I can see that the rage of opinions are still strong regarding architecture or misunderstanding of architecture or if the new taylormade ball spins more that the V1!ha  For awhile I thought this entire post was about a 14 index deciding that he can beat a 5.5 index and vice versa!   Is that a strong correlation to the Tiger Woods vs Short Fat White guy comment?

Thanks for explaining the similarities and I look forward to learning more about architecture from such a wonderful tutor.  I have yet to play the perfect golf course and I have given up on that holy grail....I found it made me shrink and gain weight.  Instead I like to learn more about how the designer reached the end product and if he was able to design 10-12-15 "good" holes, often never knowing the logisitics, sweat and tears that were spent to get to that end product.    I am pretty sure I will never play that course in SF but it makes me feel good that somebody attempted a golf course that at least mimicks some fashion of a throw-back even if its just in pictures.

Cliff

[Tom Huckaby]

Gee Cliff, I really meant no harm - it just struck me as funny to compare a course in Scotland to one in the hills of Hayward, CA.  Not so much the courses, but the surrounding areas.  Gullane feels like Scotland and the views are of the sea, and one gets somewhat close to the sea.  Stonebrae is a housing development more or less above the urban sprawl of the Bay Area, and has zero connection to the sea other than what one sees WAY off in the distance.  Thus it struck me as funny to see Gullane in Stonebrae.  I meant no offense... it was more rueful as I sure as hell WISH we had more Gullane around here.

But you know, the more I think about it, the more there are similarities in the courses.  Both do roll, both feature rocks/boulders, both offer some darn heroic shots.  Even the look is not wholly dissimilar, if one sticks just to the course.

So good call.

Just do lighten up.  Not every post is meant to be confrontational.  In fact none of mine are unless I am on the defense.

TH

[Robert "Cliff" Stanfield]

Awh heck Tom.  We all have thick skin!  Funny how emails can read tough sometimes.  Iw as just firing back and meant no harm.  Funny how it can read that way or sometimes seem to read that way.

I think reading the posts going back and forth btwn you and MW made me think that the chat room involved swords and swashbuckling responses!ha

Now that you shed light that its resy course with houses etc...I am feeling more like the pics are deceiving me.  Kinda like the old credit card commercials where the girls voice is hot only to show a fat white guy ordering 1000 dollar purses with fraud in mind!ha

I think I need a birds eye vew of this course.  I may google earth the place and I think I will then be educated on what yall have all seen first hand in person as far as the lil things that detract from an overall photgenic post.

[Rich Goodale]

Huck

Those few pictures remind me a lot of ......CINNABAR HILLS!  So how does TPC-SFB-DMcKK compare to our beolved CH, the gold standard of all Bay Area Gullane-like courses (including Pasatiempo)..................

Rich

[Wayne_Freedman]

Those were snapshots. You will find more at the link a couple of posts back.

Cinnabar Hills never even crossed my mind when playing Stonebrae.
For starters. Cinnabar Hills has water.

Both are nice courses. This place will look sensational in about three weeks when the grass goes gold..

[Mike Benham]

Both are nice courses. This place will look sensational in about three weeks when the grass goes gold..

That could be by this weekend with the oncoming heat wave ...

[Tom Huckaby]

Cliff - no hassles man, good stuff.

As for me and Matt Ward, well... like most who have been participating here for awhile do with Matt, we have a little history.  But all in good fun also.

Rich - I'm with Wayne - I don't see much Cinnabar at Stonebrae.  The latter is higher up in the hills and more, well... urban.  Cinnabar remains pretty peaceful and rural.   They miss you there.  As for comparison in terms of quality, hmmm.... I think I need to play Stonebrae again.  I can't put it above Cinnabar just yet.  But 18 holes to 27 holes.... tough comparison to make.

 

[Kalen Braley]

This course looks interesting and a fun course to play....I'm just not seeing how it melds into its surroudings.  From having spent alot of my childhood roaming around in those very hills, its odd to see so much green in the form of the golf course.  For most of the year, it really is a golden brown, dry, baked out kind of enivorment.

Admitally, I'm very biased, but still seems a bit odd!

[Wayne_Freedman]

Let us hope that the grass does not go black.
We'll be getting quite a lot of that this year.

Both are nice courses. This place will look sensational in about three weeks when the grass goes gold..

That could be by this weekend with the oncoming heat wave ...

[Ken McGlynn]

Joel, I haven't seen the course, but a fellow I know said it had a Jeckyl/Hyde problem...one great set of holes and one not-so-good set.  Not in the same league as Moraga (not that it has a great set of holes, but the contrast between one nine and the other), but that was the sense I got from him.  My friend had no desire to play it again. 

I'm scratching my head on how a discussion of David Kidd's new design in the Bay Area includes a comparison to the travesty known as Moraga Country Club. Mr. Reilly invokes the term Jekyll/Hyde. Thats's to imply good and bad. If there's one good hole there I've yet to see it. I'd say Dumb/Dumber is a more apt term. Moraga Country Club is the ultimate example of golf course design done by a rank amateur. The redesign archictect, Algie Pulley, was fired so the resident DOG (Director of Golf John Lundahl) could try his hand in the design game. Mr. Lundahl's work was abysmal at best. This may be the worst private golf course in the US. To include it in a discussion of the Bay Area's best is comical.

[Tom Huckaby]

Ken:

I read Kevin's post as saying it's NOT in the same league as Moraga CC - he made no comparison of Stonebrae to it other than to set out Moraga as an example of a course that has two very different nines.  He specifically says that Moraga does NOT have one great set of holes...  Kevin most definitely did NOT include Moraga in any discussion of the Bay Area's best, other than to cite it as this example, specifically stating also that it does not have one set of great holes.   

His friend seemed to think Stonebrae also has two very different nines.  So what's the problem?

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