Preferred Pasatiempo Restoration Feature

[Patrick Kiser]

Playing Pasa yesterday in the King Putter VI matches made me wonder what are some of the best restored features at the course and why.  This could even extend to some of the other courses played over the weekend.

So here's my favorite...

The two left front bunkers to the 18th.

Why?

They just stare at you and seem to suggest "hit me".  Like a lake or pond, one needs to get push that impression aside and get to the green.  But then you do hit one of the bunkers and then you're faced with one hell of a recovery shot.  We're talking maybe 20+ vertical feet or else...

Well, David Miller in my pairing got in trouble in one of those bunkers but made one hell of a recovery shot to within feet of the cup.  Great drama and the pressure was right back onto me.

The bottom line is without that restored bunker, there never would have been a chance to recover like that.  It would have gone straight down the hazard making it about impossible to recover.  Take your drop back over the ravine and chip on.  Oh how exciting ... not!!!

So a great restored bunker in my book.

Then again ... maybe there's a reason (other than a maintenance reason) why it got removed.  I'm sure Kaylen has a few choice words for those bunkers.

So what you all say?  What's your preferred restored feature at Pasatiempo?

[J_ Crisham]

Patrick,  I watched a player in my group(no names-great player), putt it off the front of the green and thank god for the thick grass-otherwise it was in the baranca. How about the bunkering in the front of 3? Or the green complex on 16?This course was phenominal. MPCC was so beautiful hard to see how this could not be in anyones top 10. Great set of par 3's. No two holes that were alike. A real treat to play. On a personal note hats off to our most gracious host and his very gregarious ,patient friends that guided us.

[Kalen Braley]

Ahhhh Patrick,

Tis true I found the abyss of that bunker and scarcely saw daylight before my ball trundled all the way to the bottom again.  It is a very severe bunker, no doubt.  I guess my new nickname is going to have to be sandman as dubbed by Dave Miller.

It all started on Pajaro where I got stuck in some unfortunate situations in the sandy stuff.  And 4 shots and 2 bunkers later I was picking up.  I wish that was the only occurence, but this happened two more times over the weekend, including the infamous bunker debacle on 18 while the crowd watched in grisly delight. 

Needless to say, that is hands down the most fun I've ever had in a bunker regardless of the fact that I wasn't able to extract myself out of it without doing a hand wedge.  I'm just glad I didn't pull a groin muscle or something near the top of it because that slope must be at least 60 degrees.  I really should have left a tip for the grounds crew because it was going to take one hellavu raking job to get that thing back to normal after I destroyed it.

In the final analysis, fantastic hole...I wouldn't change a thing except re-shore up the right side of it where the retaining wall has broken free.

[Mike Benham]

Without a doubt, it is the reclaimed green surfaces.  The view of the 16th green from the fairway is truly amazing and this being my second round at Pasatiempo in the past 4 weeks, I would say a good portion of the hole locations have been in the reclaimed area.

[Tim Bert]

I've got to vote for the 16th green complex and the bunkering on #10.  The 18th is splendid as well, but I can't give it any recognition here due to the fact that it destroyed my round of the week.  One shank and one re-tee mishit later, I too found myself in the bunker - half buried.  Two bunker shots a chip and a putt later I walked off the course with a 7 and an 85 - still my best round of the week but rather frustrating nonetheless. 

[Kyle Henderson]

I have to go with the restored green complex at 13 -- it now offers wicked back right and back left wings of putting surface which allow tricky pin positions that encourage layups to  opposite sides of the fairway, respectively.

The bunkers restored at #16 were the most visually striking feature IMHO.

[Patrick Kiser]

Kaylen,

If you're Mr. Sandman then I'm The Clipper.

I had the opposite problem.  I kept hitting my greenside bunker shots like they were fairway bunker shots...

Harding''s practice bunker is going to take a real beating this coming weekend.

Ahhhh Patrick,

Tis true I found the abyss of that bunker and scarcely saw daylight before my ball trundled all the way to the bottom again.  It is a very severe bunker, no doubt.  I guess my new nickname is going to have to be sandman as dubbed by Dave Miller.

It all started on Pajaro where I got stuck in some unfortunate situations in the sandy stuff.  And 4 shots and 2 bunkers later I was picking up.  I wish that was the only occurence, but this happened two more times over the weekend, including the infamous bunker debacle on 18 while the crowd watched in grisly delight. 

Needless to say, that is hands down the most fun I've ever had in a bunker regardless of the fact that I wasn't able to extract myself out of it without doing a hand wedge.  I'm just glad I didn't pull a groin muscle or something near the top of it because that slope must be at least 60 degrees.  I really should have left a tip for the grounds crew because it was going to take one hellavu raking job to get that thing back to normal after I destroyed it.

In the final analysis, fantastic hole...I wouldn't change a thing except re-shore up the right side of it where the retaining wall has broken free.

[Kalen Braley]

The 16th green complex was my oh wow moment on the course as well.  Without a doubt the most interesting and impressive looking green complex I've ever seen and played for that matter.  With the tee shot up over the nob, hazard left and curling in front of the green and bunker, its without a doubt a world class golf hole.

[Tim Bert]

The 16th green complex was my oh wow moment on the course as well.  Without a doubt the most interesting and impressive looking green complex I've ever seen and played for that matter.  With the tee shot up over the nob, hazard left and curling in front of the green and bunker, its without a doubt a world class golf hole.

My "Oh Wow" moment was when we made the turn and walked to the 10th tee.  Bill McBride turned to me and said, "Now you're about to play the nine holes I consider the most fun to play in golf."  That's a bold statement, and I think Bill has played some wonderful courses.  The front nine at Pasatiempo alone is extremely fun to play.  The back nine didn't disappoint.

[rchesnut]

I'll pick two that haven't been mentioned yet.  11 used to be flawed by the green complex -- the old green offered only front pin positions with a backboard across the middle, and was generally just too severe to manage in the back.   The restoration put back 2 bunkers to the right of the green (offering hope for a pushed approach shot), leveled the green out a bit, and created a lot of interesting pin positions...hats off to Tom and Jim for turning a very difficult, steep area into an outstanding green.  It's my favorite hole on the course now.

The other is 17.  Pre-restoration, the hole didn't have a lot to offer, it was a pretty straightforward uphill tee shot to a narrow green.  The restoration eliminated the greenside bunkers entirely, and reclaimed the back third of the green from rough and trees.  The result is a green that's nearly 60 yards long, with the barranca now coming into play both right and long.  A back right pin position is downright scary, as approach shots from the left side of the fairway have to respect the steep hill and barranca to the right of the narrow green.  17 can now hold its own with the rest of the back nine. 

[Tim Bert]

Almost forgot - I thought it was really cool that you could catch a glimpse of 16 green from the tee box.  I'm told that wasn't the case before a few trees were removed.

[John Kirk]

For me, the most important restored feature is the right greenside bunker on 16, because that bunker is now visible from the tee.  They used to put a checkered flag on the top of the fairway, to show the proper line of play.

The view from the 16th tee is dramatically different.  Although the green and bunker have been improved, they play approximately the same.

[ed_getka]

I'll pick two that haven't been mentioned yet.  11 used to be flawed by the green complex -- the old green offered only front pin positions with a backboard across the middle, and was generally just too severe to manage in the back.   The restoration put back 2 bunkers to the right of the green (offering hope for a pushed approach shot), leveled the green out a bit, and created a lot of interesting pin positions...hats off to Tom and Jim for turning a very difficult, steep area into an outstanding green.  It's my favorite hole on the course now.

The other is 17.  Pre-restoration, the hole didn't have a lot to offer, it was a pretty straightforward uphill tee shot to a narrow green.  The restoration eliminated the greenside bunkers entirely, and reclaimed the back third of the green from rough and trees.  The result is a green that's nearly 60 yards long, with the barranca now coming into play both right and long.  A back right pin position is downright scary, as approach shots from the left side of the fairway have to respect the steep hill and barranca to the right of the narrow green.  17 can now hold its own with the rest of the back nine. 

Rob,
   You stole my idea. #17 is utterly brilliant now. I used to think it was a ho-hum hole with a cool gravity defying green, but the new longer green and the nerve it takes to hit a shot to the back half of the green is really something.

As Mike pointed out the green expansions have contributed to improving an already great course.

Great thread Patrick. Have fun in France.

[Kyle Henderson]

Having never played the course before yesterday, I was actually plased to see that the transitions between the renovated patches and the "relatively untouched" potions of the course were distinguishable for the most part (as far as I could tell) such that I could see where and how some of the changes affect play. I've been going over the website's before and after photos as well. What an amazing visual and functional improvement from start to finish!

I haven't such a bevy of attractively-trimmed features since the 2004 Alpha Chi Omega Ball after party.

[David Stamm]

My favorites:

The green expanded back to it's original size on 16. Possibly the best green as far as interest I've ever seen. The front right bunker ain't too shabby either. And I love being able to see the green from the tee. Wonderful!

Totally concur with Ed. The 17th can now stand up with the rest of the 9. The pin options on that green now are so much more varied.


 

[Brett Hochstein]

For anyone looking for photographs, here's the club's link that will lead you to some:

http://www.pasatiempo.com/web/photos_slideshows.php

I have long been fascinated with MacKenzie's 'bleeding' bunkers on the 18th and had been greatly saddened to see that they had disappeared.  Though it would have been too difficult or otherwise to recapture the original wildness of the bunkers, it is great to see their form back again.  It is rare to see such visually vertical bunkers, and I find it to be a wonderful aesthetic if the land will lend it as it does here.  Great stuff!

[Reef Wilson]

Ditto on 16. I love that it's possible you could come just sort of it getting on the top tier and still have the ball come all the way off the front of the green. Of course, that's easy to say until it actually happens to me.

[Tom Huckaby]

Ditto on 16. I love that it's possible you could come just sort of it getting on the top tier and still have the ball come all the way off the front of the green. Of course, that's easy to say until it actually happens to me.

You love that?

I find it absurd.

16 is a fantastic green at speeds at 9 or less.  Over that it gets pretty silly, but the main thing is that 4/5 of the green is unpinnable.

To that end:   Mike, have you seen a pin other than back shelf since they restored it?  I've played there three times myself and I sure haven't.  Given the green speed I don't think they CAN use anything other than a back shelf pin.  So yes, in terms of side to side the pins do tend to be put on the reclaimed larger area.  But oh how cool it would be if that green wasn't so fast and they could use some other pin placements....

As you can tell, I am sort of a fan of what's been done to 16, but not really.  Not combined with the green speed.  It sure as hell COULD be a very interesting, very fun green.  As it is, well... how interesting is a green where only one pin position is possible?  It surely does give a wide range of outcomes... but guys, think how cool a MIDDLE shelf pin would be, at moderate speed.... or a front front pin.....

So yeah, I guess I do kinda like 16 as it is... the expansion is neat, as Mike is right the view from the fairway is awe-inspiring... but man as I play that hole I can't help but dare to dream about what might be.

I'm rather with Rob Chestnut about 11 and 17 though... those are both EXCELLENT.  Goofy-golf was removed from 11... and 17 is diabolical for sure but also will never have absurdity no matter what the speed.

Pasa seems to have made the deal with the devil re green speed.  On most it's OK... but on some, well....

[John Kirk]

Tom,

The pin on 16 on Saturday, the day before, was on the second tier, but way left, only four paces from the edge.  It's a high spot of the second tier,  but the green starts falling away as you go past the pin towards the left edge.  It was possible to trickle it down from the top tier and two putt, and it was possible to two putt from the middle tier also, but in each case, a good first putt was required.

It would have been foolish to aim at the pin, since a pulled shot would have ended up over the road.

I think this is a new recovered pin location.  I don't remember ever seeing it there.

I was around this weekend, and sorry I didn't get the chance to meet you.

[Bob_Huntley]

Tom,

I concur with you re number sixteen.

In reality,  it has to be one of the smallest green surfaces anywhere.

Bob

[rchesnut]

Actually, the restoration of 16 increased the number of available pin positions.  Of course, pin positions on 16 have a lot to do with green speed, and the club has made a conscious decision (encouraged by Tom and Jim) to slow them up...at speeds above 10, they simply aren't as fun to putt. 

Here's the scoop.  The restoration of 16 put back a pretty wide swath of putting surface all around the green, with the largest area in the back right. So back right is now a good option for pins, and the puttable area in the back has increased nicely.  Further, the club has always used 2 distinct middle pins on 16, both before and after the restoration.  One area is on a shelf on the left, the spot that John mentioned, easily the most difficult pin on the hole.  The restoration added more puttable area in this pin location, making it more fair...it's a tough spot to hit it close, even with a wedge.  And the other spot is middle center and middle right, in front of the top shelf, with a backboard.  Again, the restoration added more green to the right side, increasing the puttable area and the number of places where a hole can be cut.  I've seen these middle pins used about 40% of the time post-restoration, with back pins the remaining 60% of the time.

Finally, the restoration did increase the area at the bottom of the green in the front.  Several of us at KP looked at this area and agreed that a pin can now be placed in the front, there's a (small) flat area there where there's room.  It would be a very interesting hole location, tucked just over the bunker and barranca.  A golfer could fire at the middle of the green and let the ball come all the way down to the front, but that would involve a risk that the ball would stay on the middle shelf, creating a near impossible putt.

I agree that, percentage wise, it has a fairly small puttable area...but don't forget that the top shelf is pretty long (and now wider)...when you combine that whole area with the two middle pin areas, it's probably bigger than you realize, particularly post-restoration.  As a percentage of the overall green area, I'd say that it's comparable to #8 and probably larger than #11 pre-restoration. 

[Dave_Miller]

Playing Pasa yesterday in the King Putter VI matches made me wonder what are some of the best restored features at the course and why.  This could even extend to some of the other courses played over the weekend.

So here's my favorite...

The two left front bunkers to the 18th.

Why?

They just stare at you and seem to suggest "hit me".  Like a lake or pond, one needs to get push that impression aside and get to the green.  But then you do hit one of the bunkers and then you're faced with one hell of a recovery shot.  We're talking maybe 20+ vertical feet or else...

Well, David Miller in my pairing got in trouble in one of those bunkers but made one hell of a recovery shot to within feet of the cup.  Great drama and the pressure was right back onto me.

The bottom line is without that restored bunker, there never would have been a chance to recover like that.  It would have gone straight down the hazard making it about impossible to recover.  Take your drop back over the ravine and chip on.  Oh how exciting ... not!!!

So a great restored bunker in my book.

Then again ... maybe there's a reason (other than a maintenance reason) why it got removed.  I'm sure Kaylen has a few choice words for those bunkers.

So what you all say?  What's your preferred restored feature at Pasatiempo?

Number 11, 16 & 18 are just incredible. 

Patrick that bunker shot was not fun but I got lucky

Sorry I'm joing all this late. Was off the computer all day yesterday due to incredible delays flying back to Boston.  Got in six hours late but would do it again if we could re-do this trip

Great to meet everyone.

Best
Dave

[John Mayhugh]

The sixteenth green looks pretty intimidating from the fairway (not that I was playing from there).


My favorite restoration was probably the bunkering on the fifteenth.

[Mike Benham]

16 is a fantastic green at speeds at 9 or less. 

I'm guessing that the green speeds were no faster then a 9 for all the holes.  All hole locations were accessable but if you were above the hole and not on the green, #11 for example, you had a chip/putt that would not finish closer then 15 feet below the hole.

[Kalen Braley]

Those middle tier pin positions looked doable, but potentially nightmarish for a player with less than decent putting skills.  I would concur that the front part of the green does look pinnable, but yes woe unto him who misses long and tries to put back down to it.

I'd also agree with Rob C on the back portion of that green.  The shelf up there looked to be pretty good size and there could be several pin positions on top...but then again, they are all rear pin placements.

Anyway you slice it up, its a fantastic hole tee to green and the most unique green complex I've ever seen.