[Mike Bowline]

I just read in the most recent issue of Golf Course Industry (page 18, April issue) about a National Golf Foundation survey that defines reasons golfers cite as barriers to playing more golf. To quote the article:

“A high percentage of golfers are intimidated or embarrassed at golf courses”. “…most of the issues surrounding these bad feelings are addressable at the facility level.
More than half of female golfers feel intimidated by other players, the staff, or the environment in general. And 60 percent of women feel embarrassed by their lack of skill or knowledge. Men are far less likely to feel intimidated or embarrassed compared to women. Still, one third are.”

“Infrequent golfers are much more likely to have these feelings compared to more frequent players.”
“When asked what would make them play more often, golfers overwhelmingly answered the age-old time-and money issue, which, for the most part, aren’t addressable at the facility. Issues that are addressable, and are important to many golfers, include having a social network of people to play with, such as leagues, playing nine holes, and walking instead of riding.”

This survey should have us ask the question: how can the facility design include this information in the design process? Or should it be?

[Tom_Doak]

Time and money aren't addressable at the facility?  Or they just don't want to address them?

[RJ_Daley]

I think that article may be on point, but needs more evaluation and definition of what exactly is intimidating.  Is it the trend towards longer, harder, more landscaped and manicured designs?  Is it the fact that said designs of the CCFAD or new venues cost significantly more due to all the intricacy and maintenance requirements?  Is it that the CCFADs and many new and old clubs are generally always seeking to present themselves more and more, "elegant" or "classy" with details like minions dressed in little "theme outfits"running around grabbing your clubs out of the trunk, fussing and fawning over you.  Or, the atmosphere at many clubs and CCFAD facilities inside the clubhouses, that sort of reeks of condecension?  

What new golfer, woman or man, or "joe average" recreational person  wants to play the obligatory game of pretense that IMHO, too many facilities foster?  

Does the NGF possibly think that if golf were presented as "people want to play more, not pay more" and that the tone set right from the drive into the parking lot is too pretentious, that just maybe more folks would give the game a try and stay with it?

[John Moore II]

I might say that the intimidation comes from not feeling like you belong at a golf course due to stature, wealth or any number of other things. As far as ladies feeling intimidated, we need more ladies in the golf business. I would love to hire a female assistant professional at my club. We get probably 10-15% of our play from ladies (a fairly large number in Pinehurst) and I think a lady assistant would increase lady participation in play. But intimidation from lack of skill is not a factor that golf courses can take care of, that must be done by individual players.

[RJ_Daley]

J. Ken,how do we get to a confident skill level without repeated play?  How do we get to repeated play if not affordable?  How do we get to more affordable with too much extravaganza on the course and in the clubhouse?   

[RJ_Daley]

BTW, I also agree that women can be a more confident and less intimidated group, if more accomodations are made, including role modeling with a woman pro or assistant. 

At our home muni course that I'd call a very good, well run, and affordable course, we have many women 40-60s that play confidently.  But, they are only confident because of the frequent play due to affordablility, comfort with the atmosphere and decent women's league program.  We don't have a woman assistant pro, but I bet we'd get even more area women if we did have one.

[Michael Whitaker]

I think that article may be on point, but needs more evaluation and definition of what exactly is intimidating.

Dick - At the SC Golf Association we have talked with a good number of juniors and adults who have given up golf and asked them why. The main reason is "intimidation."

Because most kids are not "skilled" players they report they were often made to feel golf was a SPORT they should NOT persue! Who made them feel this way... the coaches and teachers who overly praise the kids who hit the ball the farthest or show exceptional talent. The kids with "average" skills were not taught that golf is a game that you can can enjoy regardless of the score you shoot. As a result, these kids moved on to soccer or some other sport that allowed them to play for recreation. How many golf-recreation leagues for kids do you know of? How many soccer-recreation leagues? Do the parents and coaches of all those kids playing soccer think they are training the next Beckham? Of course not. But, when a kid joins most junior golf programs they are made to feel that their ultimate goal should be to play on their school's team, or participate in individual stroke play tournaments. If they do not show that kind of promise they are often made to feel that their time might be better spent doing something else.

Adults are not much different. Most we talk with who have left the game were so focused on "score" that they could not enjoy themselves unless they were able to shoot a certain number. They were never taught that golf is a GAME that can be played and enjoyed as a GAME at any level of skill.

It's sad, really. Golf is the greatest game... but,  in this country, we are so focused on "the numbers" that kids and adults stay away out of frustration in not being able to "measure up."

We need facilities for kids where they can learn to enjoy themsleves playing the GAME of golf. A small percentage of these kids (less than 10%) will demonstrate higher skill levels and move on to individually-oriented competitive golf... but, the 90% who will one day make up the bulk of the golfing population should be encouraged to enjoy the game as a game and not focus so heavily on how far they hit the ball or what score they must shoot to enjoy themselves.

I wish a top course designer would offer to help create some junior courses that would excite and engage young players... and serve as a prototype of what can be done to grow the game. I think I could get two or three built ASAP in SC.

[noonan]

The problem at muni's is they do not put the golfers on the correct course.

I played behind a group of 4 today.

There are 2 courses.

They teed off on the "big" course with 2 men that hit it everywhere and 2 ladies that were not highly skilled.

I followed them for 9 and played 2 balls.

When a facility has 2 courses, the inexperienced players should be "herded" to the easier course.

When a facility has one course, they should have ample tees. The starter should suggest what tees for the players to use.

[RJ_Daley]

Brown County

Annual Season Pass Rates
 Adult
 1250.00
Husband & Wife
 2250.00
Senior (62+)
 1124.00
Sr. Husband & Wife
 2023.00
18-22 Years
 1000.00
Junior (18* & Under)
 956.00
Limited Junior
-Weekdays before 3 p.m.
-Weekends after 3 p.m.
 275.00
                                *  Reduce fee for 18 year old High School Students.

Wild Horse

Family Membership  $500.00 
Single Membership  $425.00 
Student Membership  $200.00 
Yearly Cart Rental      $250.00 
Initiation Fee   $500.00 (payable over 5 years)

Mike: note the fees for kids.  some of the best recreational deals in the country.

[John Moore II]

RJ-I frankly do not know the answers to what you ask. If I knew how to get inexperienced people to come play the course every day at affordable rates that can make the club a profit, I would be a genius. I do not know. One thing I must say I liked about Florida while I was down there was the abundance of municipal golf, at least in St. Lucie, Martin and Palm Beach counties. Courses seemed to be everywhere with affordable rates. The daily fee rates at the three Muni's I played were around $35. That to me is reasonable, especially given the quality. Places like that are excellent places to implement programs to grow the game. However, in NC, there is an extreme lack of municipal golf, with only a few cities having golf courses. So, that leaves the others to try and grow the number of golfers. Private Clubs may or may not care who comes into the game, their membership generally comes from experienced players. Resorts have all the play they can handle all ready. So that leaves the daily fee/semi private clubs to try to bring in new players. If they do depends on whether or not the GM/Head Pro cares enough to do what is necessary.

[Ryan Farrow]

Ooooooooooo so all the people who blasted me about how my theory of eliminating golf carts would bring golf back to "the people", the average folk, hell, even the bitter............yea.... not so crazy after all......


and while were at it, can we turn them bag handlers and golf cart washers into caddies? Thanks.

[John Moore II]

Ryan--please explain how walking only would bring the game back to the people? I feel that it would not. Here is why:
-Many people are lazy and do not walk to play-those people would be lost.
-Many people have a handicap and can not walk to play-those people would be lost
-Many people perceive that it takes longer to play when walking-those people would be lost.
-Many existing courses run through housing developments and are impractical to walk-do we close down those courses?

Now, lets say we go to caddies, as you say:
-Average cart fee=$15-20 per person
-Average Caddy fee=$30-50 per bag
I am not the smartest man in the world, but it seems to me that $60-80 per group to ride is cheaper than $120-200 for caddies. But maybe my math is incorrect.

So, with all that said, please tell me how elimnating the golf car would bring the game back to the people?

[Ryan Farrow]

Ryan--please explain how walking only would bring the game back to the people? I feel that it would not. Here is why:
-Many people are lazy and do not walk to play-those people would be lost.
-Many people have a handicap and can not walk to play-those people would be lost
-Many people perceive that it takes longer to play when walking-those people would be lost.
-Many existing courses run through housing developments and are impractical to walk-do we close down those courses?

Now, lets say we go to caddies, as you say:
-Average cart fee=$15-20 per person
-Average Caddy fee=$30-50 per bag
I am not the smartest man in the world, but it seems to me that $60-80 per group to ride is cheaper than $120-200 for caddies. But maybe my math is incorrect.

So, with all that said, please tell me how elimnating the golf car would bring the game back to the people?

"-Many people are lazy and do not walk to play-those people would be lost."

Wow, lets not generalize or anything. Many people are looking for exercise, many calories will be lost.

"-Many people have a handicap and can not walk to play-those people would be lost"

ADA is a great thing, these people will still have their carts, no rounds will be lost

"-Many people perceive that it takes longer to play when walking-those people would be lost."

Yea, who? No rounds will be lost

"-Many existing courses run through housing developments and are impractical to walk-do we close down those courses?"

Go right ahead, and while your at it redesign and rebuild the whole housing development, Levittown's are just a blip in history, enjoy em while there still around. Many bad, bad, golf courses will be lost


Caddies aren't for every golf course, I agree but not everyone has to take one. But just think, wouldn't it be great if we could get some of these kids out from in front of their computers or their videos games and make a few bucks in the summer?

[John Moore II]

Ryan-if you are actually diluted enough to think that courses would not lose business by going to walking only, you just continue being wrong, and I'll continue being correct. The ONLY way to not experience a significant drop off in rounds played would be if every course in America went permanent walking only on the same day. And then the only courses to still get business would be those not in housing, where the walk from green to tee is short. At this point, it would simply be impractical for any club beyond an exclusive private club to turn to a walking only policy. But only then if you have a youngish membership. Personally, being from Pinehurst, where my average member age is 65, if I switched to walking only, I should also commision the town to build an EMS station on property.

[Sean_A]

I do like the idea of leagues for kids, but I would think this is a tough sell for a course to put up with unless full whack could be charged or unless they are committed to a junior program.  This is an area where I think city administrations should step in and subsidize play if there isn't a muni available.   At privates I think it could work.  I know at my old club a league was in place for younger kids - say 8-12 that was based on better ball match play.  Only a few events of the year focused on medal play.  The kids seem to like being part of a team - who doesn't?  And, if things are going badly they can pick up and go to the next hole.  Its a great way to learn all the facets of the competitive (intimidating?) side of the game without having too much pressure.

Ciao

[Steve Kline]

I grew up in golfing family. My dad a medium single digit and my mom a 14 or so. When I got married we started taking my wife with us once a week to play golf at our club and got her some lessons. She always felt intimated, embarrased, etc. because she wasn't as good as the rest of us and she would hold up the people behind us. This was despite our constant pleadings that only important thing is that you play fast (and we taught her every round ways to do this).

At the same club, women were not allowed to tee off in the morning on the weekends, which was the standard at all clubs in Cincinnati. However, I as 13 year old boy was (only because I was deemed a good enough player by the pro). My mom didn't like this and asked the club to change the rule. They steadfastly refused. She sued the club. One day we went out to the club while the lawsuit was going on and a guy spit on her. Now, I'm not generalizing to say that all men are that way, but when just a few men act that way at golf courses and you have one of the most significant clubs with one of the most significant events not allow women to join what kind of signal does that send to women? (And I'm perfectly comfortable with Augusta having a men only policy - it's their right - but that policy does have ramifications.) BTW - my mom continued to play golf for years after the lawsuit, but despite having a house in Pinehurst she has now given it up for horseback riding.

My current club has an excellent summer golf camp for juniors. Lots of kids are involved. This year they have put in junior tee markers in the fairways - similar to the U.S. Kids Golf concept but ours are done through the PGA. For my son, who will be 8 in two weeks, par 3s range from 40-80 yards, par 4s are around 100 yards and par 5s are around 130 yards. This is great, but the one problem is our course was never designed for this. The minimum yardage any par 3 can is 80 yards because they all have forced carries. Many par 4s have forced carries as well. But, at least they are doing some things to get kids more involved.

I would venture to say that as many novice men are as intimidated as women but they aren't willing to admit.

[John Burzynski]

http://sbpark.org/golf/erskine.htm

Take a look at our local muni and junior program set up (click on golf in the bar at right in the link and choose 'junior tour' and 'junior golf').

Junior golf, all summer, one day a week, boys and girls mixed, a group lesson, then 9 holes of golf on a really nice par 29 executive course.  Anyone can learn / play regardless of ability, etiquette is taught, swing basics like stance, grip, etc.  All for a $40 program fee and $ 5 per week (for the round of golf).  They take 125 kids, it is always full, they have had to turn kids away inthe past (although I know for a fact they take a lot more than the stated 125 kids).

A junior tour, you have minimum scoring standards to join (for instance, roughly 110 score for a 14 year old)...they play different courses around here.

We do it right here, I wish other cities would model our junior programs, as well as our green fees for our muni's.  Walking it is never more expensive than $20 for 18 at the peak of the week.   And they are nice courses, well kept.

This is why two of my three boys are avid golfers (the third hates the game, but I'll keep him anyhow ), and why I can afford to take them out once a week for 9 or 18.

[John Keenan]

My wife and a group of her friends have just started playing. It is interesting to watch and hear what happens as I think it illustrates what many beginners do and feel

She will only play with her friends. She and I played a few weeks back and were paired up with two women. My wife was concerned that she was not good enough, did not hit it far enough and so on. The two women could not have been nicer to play with. None the less my wife is highly uncomfortable in getting paired up. I would suspect this is common.

Her group does not keep score and has no plan to. They enjoy going out and playing and being together. No reason to keep score.

They always walk. I think the only time she has driven a cart was when she helped out at a golf/fund raiser. The enjoy walking and using pull carts for their bags. It also allows the to all talk as they go about the course.

The # 1 thing is the course, it is 9 holes. That I have learned is a big deal for them. 18 is too long in both course length and time. They have no interest in playing 18.   

18 hole courses have a barrier of the course length, and the fear that the players are all "good".  Beginners should find this 9 hole courses and enjoy them. The pace of play is a bit slow on a busy weekend as beginners are scurrying to find their balls or hit the second or third drive to the par 3 but this is where golf starts. 

Much as more advanced golfers need to play the correct tees, beginners need to play the correct course. It adds to the fun and keeps them in the game.

[Kyle Harris]

Naw, it can't be intimidation. Never.

Not once has anyone on here groaned at seeing the beginners out on the golf course slowing things up on a Saturday afternoon. Nope, no pressure on them there.

[Adam Clayman]

After the NGF's prediction in the mid 80's, why would anyone put any credence into another one of their prognostications?

Tom Doak is absolutely correct in intimating that few facilities do anything to lower the cost to the user, or, pick up the pace.

[Mike_Young]

 NGF Survey cites "intimidation" as a barrier to golfer

Come on.....lets see..first they said we need to build one course a day for how many years to meet demand? 
I quit the NGF a few years back because they do absolutely "ZERO" for the game of golf....like many of the "corporate elements" of golf....mainly create salaries for their executives.....I would give ZERO credibility to their statements....

[John Burzynski]

Naw, it can't be intimidation. Never.

Not once has anyone on here groaned at seeing the beginners out on the golf course slowing things up on a Saturday afternoon. Nope, no pressure on them there.

Although I am not the NGF's biggest fan, I fear that they have hit on at least one problem that I see and hear all of the time that Kyle espoused above...that small percentage of 'great players' out there who either through body language or even their refusal to take on a fourth or pair up with new golfers send a message of 'you are not welcome' to some golfers as they begin the game.   

Long ago I was on the beginners side of that, and I occasionally still see it or hear about it on the course, as well as reading about it on golf discussion boards.  Moaning how the game is 'too slow' or having to wait for beginners to 'take twice as many strokes as the rest of us', or whatever; it is bound to show in body language and bound to discourage the new hig handicap golfer. 

[Tommy Williamsen]

Statistics and polls are always fun.  How many of those interviewed are intimidated at other places, work, speaking with a sales person or flight attendant, at church?  I'm not sure what this poll actually shows if anything.

[Kyle Harris]

Naw, it can't be intimidation. Never.

Not once has anyone on here groaned at seeing the beginners out on the golf course slowing things up on a Saturday afternoon. Nope, no pressure on them there.

Although I am not the NGF's biggest fan, I fear that they have hit on at least one problem that I see and hear all of the time that Kyle espoused above...that small percentage of 'great players' out there who either through body language or even their refusal to take on a fourth or pair up with new golfers send a message of 'you are not welcome' to some golfers as they begin the game.   

Long ago I was on the beginners side of that, and I occasionally still see it or hear about it on the course, as well as reading about it on golf discussion boards.  Moaning how the game is 'too slow' or having to wait for beginners to 'take twice as many strokes as the rest of us', or whatever; it is bound to show in body language and bound to discourage the new hig handicap golfer. 

John,

I've faced the attitude when I was playing HS golf. Frankly, everything got blamed on us that was wrong with the local muni. We weren't perfect, but we also weren't not replacing 50 divots per fairway, either. I fear the ease with which it is to point and lay blame on the inexperienced for issues on the golf course is a rather large barrier to entry.

Golfers, as a whole, aren't a very welcoming or accepting bunch.

[John Moore II]

I think the whole issue with beginners is that people don't want to try to educate them on how to properly play the game, treat the course, and other necessary things. I have no issue with playing with someone who is a beginner, and if I see them doing something incorrectly, I make every effort to show them and tell them the proper things to do in the nicest way possible. I think the golf courses, especially the public ones, need to do extensive beginning golfer education programs in order to reduce this intimidation and lack of knowledge.

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