[A.G._Crockett]

Do you think we're off by 5 yards? 15? 30?

George,
This is only a guess, but I'll say that just about the max that normal person can hit a normal 5 iron on flat ground w/o wind is about 185 or 190, and most far less than that.  And that would be with a swing that they would never normally make in even a casual round.  Their bodies just flat out lack the strength, flexibility, and hand-eye coordination to move a 5 iron fast enough to propel a golf ball 200 yds. through the air, even crookedly. 

[Jay Cox]

To all the people who said that what tee you play from should be based on your handicap:  

Why?

Why should a player who hits an average drive 300, hits an average three iron 220, and can barely break 90 because he hits every club very crooked a quarter of the time and can't putt play at 6800 yards instead of 6000?  He'll enjoy the round much more because he'll hit a variety of clubs, instead of either keeping his driver in the bag all the time or hitting nothing but wedges into greens.  He won't slow play down any more than he would otherwise.  His problem is that he has to search for his ball in the woods every few holes, reload a fair amount, and hit three putts on many holes, not that the extra length is bothering him.

Conversely, won't a very skilled player who can't hit the ball more than 220 yards have much more fun playing at 6200 than at 7000, even if he could scrape out a 75 from 7000 by excellent fairway wood play, a stellar short game, and sheer will?  Shouldn't he get to experience the full range of shots as well?

While I think skill should make some difference, basing tee choice primarily on average distance (not maximum distance -- just because I crisped a five iron 220 once doesn't mean that I really can hit it more than 180) makes more sense to me.

[George Pazin]

Thanks for the estimates. I think you're incorrect in guessing fewer folks can hit a 200 yard 5 iron than a 300 yard drive, but it's a relatively small number in either case.

The human body just isn't set up to move a golf club that fast, the freaks of nature that play professionally aside.  In most cases, the people that have the ability to move the club at a rate that can make a golf ball go 300 yds. off the driver or 200 yds. off the 5 iron also possess the ability to become relatively consistent.  I think that the people that you are talking about in this thread who say they can hit a 5 iron 200 yds. actually cannot; they might top out at 185 or so, and ought to be trying for more like 170.  You, on the other hand, are serious enough about your game to know EXACTLY what happens to your control if you try to hit a 5 iron even 10 yds. farther than normal, and you almost never make that mistake.

Well, I look forward to teeing it up with you someday to see who's right.

-----

Nice post, Jay, you hit on many reasons why I don't particularly care for the multiple tee system.

[Richard Choi]

Jay, I totally agree.

I get a little annoyed when starters ask you what your handicap is then tell you that you really should play from the whites or whatever. You should play the yardage where you have most fun. To me, that is about 6600 yards. From 6000 yards I am hitting mostly 3 woods and wedges in - not interesting. People should have the freedom to play from whatever tee they want as long as they are keeping up with the group ahead of them.

P.S. I play a lot of rounds at Washington National where the blue tees are about 6600 yards. One day, I went out by myself and was paired up with a group of collegiate players who were there practicing for an upcoming NCAA tournament. They were playing from the tips (7400 yards), and I said what the hell and I played with them from back there and I shot my handicap. I don't think I want to play from that distance everyday, but it wasn't that bad either.

[Sean Leary]

Jay, I totally agree.

I get a little annoyed when starters ask you what your handicap is then tell you that you really should play from the whites or whatever. You should play the yardage where you have most fun. To me, that is about 6600 yards. From 6000 yards I am hitting mostly 3 woods and wedges in - not interesting. People should have the freedom to play from whatever tee they want as long as they are keeping up with the group ahead of them.

P.S. I play a lot of rounds at Washington National where the blue tees are about 6600 yards. One day, I went out by myself and was paired up with a group of collegiate players who were there practicing for an upcoming NCAA tournament. They were playing from the tips (7400 yards), and I said what the hell and I played with them from back there and I shot my handicap. I don't think I want to play from that distance everyday, but it wasn't that bad either.

Richard,

When you travel, do you play farther back?  6600 in the PNW most of the year is equal to 6900 a lot of places..

[A.G._Crockett]

Thanks for the estimates. I think you're incorrect in guessing fewer folks can hit a 200 yard 5 iron than a 300 yard drive, but it's a relatively small number in either case.

George,
I guess this only because there are massive quantities of technology available in drivers and driver shafts.  On the other hand, to some extent a 5 iron is a 5 iron is a 5 iron.  In my own case, I'd need to add about 15% to each to get to those distances; I think I'd have a better shot with the driver because of the technology.  I just don't see myself getting 15% longer with a 5 iron; in fact, I'm not trying to.

But heck, I'm just guessing at all of this anyway.

[Sean_A]

For what its worth, I agree completely with AG.  Golfers routinely over-estimate how far they hit the ball consistently.  I have seen only a few club players guys that can carry a driver 300 yards with any consistency and accuracy and the same could be said for a 5 iron going 200.  Its one thing to say you hit a 5 iron 200, but if you aren't accurate you are probably over-swinging a club that was never meant to go 200 yards.  I know many people have asked me how far I hit a driver and my standard response is 220-240 yards.  Many times they wills say its more like 275.  I know for a fact that I can't carry a driver anything close to 275 and that even on a roll out 275 in somewhat favourable conditions is a big hit for me.  Truth be told, I think I max out at 250 on a very well hit drive that is designed to carry, but there is no way I would count on ever carrying it that far. 

I am not sure if guys should choose tees based on handicap or how far they hit their shots with reasonable accuracy.  I do know that I have seen one hell of a lot of 0-5 cappers that have no business stepping back to 7000 yards.  The vast majority of these guys have all they can handle on a cleverly designed 6500 yard course on most days  Sure, they may break 70 sometimes, but is this an indication that the course is too short?  For some reason folks make this assumption, but I don't see it born out when I play with these guys.  Length is only one element of golf and it gets  far too much attention. 

One question, why was a 28 degree club selected for this calculation?

Ciao

[Jon Wiggett]

Guys,

I am an average standard playing PGA pro. I play on or around -2/+2 on most courses I play. I hit my 5 iron 170 meters which is about 187 yards. I am not the longest hitter and there are many players who hit the ball a good 1 to 1.5 clubs longer than me or around the 200/205 yards.

That there are some pros who can hit the ball 230 with the 5 iron doesn't suprise me as I can squeeze it out to 195 yard mark if I really give it a hit and of course pull the shot off (over 220 yards in Crans-Montana ). I am not sure if there are tour pro's who hit a genuine 5 iron 230 on average though.

I recall once playing with a pro once who claimed he could hit his wedge 180 yards and I said I didn't believe him. He pulled out a club and proceeded to wack a ball down the practice ground about 180. I pointed out to him that the club in his hand looked like a 4/5 iron. It does doesn't it but its got W on the sole, which it did.

It is not unusual for tour pros to play with stronger lofts. There are many not using a 3 iron any more but their 4 iron has 20° loft, the same players are carrying a gap wedge with 49°/50° which what a 9 iron used to be.

5 iron 230 yards, but what loft does it have.

[Donnie Beck]

My current set up Ping G5

3 iron 230
4 iron 215
5 iron 200
6 iron 185
7 iron 175
8 iron 165
9 iron 155
PW 145
52 degree 125
56 degree 110
62 degree I gave up on it except for bunkers

Current index 7.7... I started last year as an 18.7 and I can say distance didn't change at all with my improvement.

[JLahrman]

For what its worth, I agree completely with AG.  Golfers routinely over-estimate how far they hit the ball consistently.  I have seen only a few club players guys that can carry a driver 300 yards with any consistency and accuracy and the same could be said for a 5 iron going 200.  Its one thing to say you hit a 5 iron 200, but if you aren't accurate you are probably over-swinging a club that was never meant to go 200 yards.  I know many people have asked me how far I hit a driver and my standard response is 220-240 yards.  Many times they wills say its more like 275.  I know for a fact that I can't carry a driver anything close to 275 and that even on a roll out 275 in somewhat favourable conditions is a big hit for me.  Truth be told, I think I max out at 250 on a very well hit drive that is designed to carry, but there is no way I would count on ever carrying it that far. 

I have a lot easier time hitting a 5-iron 200 yards than I do hitting a driver 300.  I'm an 8 handicap, 33 years old and in relatively good shape, and I'm 6'6.  I believe I carry a decent 5-iron about 195, and carry a decent driver probably 260.  'Decent' here means ignoring my mishits, but not taking exclusively my best shots either.  I also preface with 'I believe' knowing how golfers do estimating their yardages.  I'm much more confident in my 5 iron yardage than my driver yardage, but I know there ain't no way in Hades I get anywhere near 300 yards out of a driver.

[Garland Bayley]

Two points.

Don't cite tour averages as appropriate for this estimate. The tour should be playing from 8000+ yard courses given the advances in distance they have made.

Tour players typically have their clubs built heavier than our clubs. They naturally lose some distance because of this.

[A.G._Crockett]

Tour players typically have their clubs built heavier than our clubs. They naturally lose some distance because of this.

IF they swing at the same speeds we do; the Tour swing speed average is almost 20 mph higher than mine.

[Garland Bayley]

Tour players typically have their clubs built heavier than our clubs. They naturally lose some distance because of this.

IF they swing at the same speeds we do; the Tour swing speed average is almost 20 mph higher than mine.

The heavier club slows their swing to almost 20 mph higher than yours. Hand them your club and they will swing it faster.

[Richard Choi]

Richard,

When you travel, do you play farther back?  6600 in the PNW most of the year is equal to 6900 a lot of places..

you are quite right, with the colder weather and soft, wet fairways our course do play little longer. I usually play blues in the summer and stick to whites in the winter. When I go play in Florida, Palm Springs, or Hawaii I do actually look for yardages in 6800 area.

P.S I was just at Chambers Bay and the fairways there were running pretty well. Too bad, the greens are still just glorified fairways..

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