[Mark Pearce]

Deleted.

[Mark Pearce]

Deleted.  I walked into a minefield I'm not qualified to navigate.  I'll learn from my mistake.

[DMoriarty]

"Richard. 

So if you repeat something over and over again then it makes sense?  Interesting.   That that only work in Philadelphia?"

David,

Perhaps, but I think this website now sees it sure doesn't work with one Californian.

Amen to that.


It is late, Tom.   Perhaps you should get some sleep.   Tomorrow is a new day.

[Rich Goodale]

Richard. 

So if you repeat something over and over again then it makes sense?  Interesting.   That that only work in Philadelphia?

OK, David, I'll ask you the same honest question I asked Michael.  What (if anything) do you find ridiculous in Tom Paul's post on Crump?

Rich,

Let me tell you what I find ridiculous about it. It's the tone and the anger and the judgmental nature of it.  As I understand it (and please correct me if I have misunderstood) Tom MacWood uncovered the fact that Crump killed himself, which had been hidden.  In doing so he misled one of the individuals from whom he got the story as to his intentions.  Had he not, he would not have gotten his evidence.

TEP responds to that with a violent personal attack on Tom.  But this is a site where we are interested in GCA and its history.  The Crump story is relevant and interesting to core GCA discussion.  Tom uncovered some interesting history.  If he'd been writing about someone in a different historical field (a politician, perhaps, or a railway tycoon) I can't believe we'd see that vehement a response. However, because it relates to a founding member of a very great and revered private golf club we get that violence of emotion.  I find that ridiculous.  This is, after all, the 21st century.  It would be nice to think that we've moved on in our understanding of mental health and suicide that the fact that Crump may, sadly, have ended his own life, isn't any sort of stigma on him, let alone on Pine Valley and its members.  I really don't see a victim here but I do see interesting information uncovered.

No doubt someone will (civily, please) correct me where I am wrong.

Thanks, Mark

Your precis fits with my understanding of the facts and what TEP wrote above.  My only difference with you is that I find Tom's emotional response to those facts understandable and not ridiculous.  I personally do not think that ridiculing someone else's code of honor is pleasant or productive.

Cheers

Rich

[DMoriarty]

Code of Honor?  What happened to Tom MacWood on this website is anything but honorable.   Shameful is more like it. 

And what of MacWood's code of honor?   Studying what interests him and following where the facts lead him, even in the face of insults, bullying, lies, threats, and imagined slights supposedly directed at long dead men.  Do you find that the ridicule Tom MacWood faced  pleasant and productive?  How so? 

Does a "code of honor" really justify bullying and berating a poster on what is supposed to be a website for frank discussion of golf course architecture?

[Rich Goodale]

David

Both Tom's have codes of honor--they just are different ones.  I am opposed to ridiculing anybody's code of honor publicly, regardless of how ridiculous I personally might find that code of honor to be.

Rich

[DMoriarty]

David

Both Tom's have codes of honor--they just are different ones.  I am opposed to ridiculing anybody's code of honor publicly, regardless of how ridiculous I personally might find that code of honor to be.

Rich

So then why ridicule Mark, who was acting honorably? 

[Rich Goodale]

David

I didn't mean at all to "ridicule" Mark, whom I respect highly and consider to be a friend.  If I did, Mark, please accept my apology.

Rich

[Mark Pearce]

Rich,

Don't worry, I didn't take it that way at all. 

Mark

[Patrick_Mucci]

Patrick,

Even Job had a limit on his time and patience. 

If David has something new to share about the beginnings of Merion, isn't this time to produce it?

I don't care if he's found out that Moe, Larry, and Curly designed Merion...let's hear the facts he says he has.

Or, would he prefer to make people look foolish guessing first?

It's clear he prefers the latter.

To me, that's not being a straight-up guy..it's being a ....fill in the blank.

Mike,

The guy justs gets back on the site and you want him to reveal, "The History of the World, Part III" in the first few days.

Give him some time.

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised, and you'll get what you've been asking for.  JUST kEEP AN OPEN AND OBJECTIVE MIND when you read his postings, RATHER than looking to refute them.

[Mike_Cirba]

Patrick,

I'm done here.  I have no time for personal vendettas and childish games.


Ran,

If it is ok with you, please remove this thread.

Thanks

[Joe Hancock]

Mike,

Why have the thread removed? Apart from a few pissy moments by a few guys, there is quite a bit of good reading here, in a way that was intended for this website.

I say leave it.

Joe

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mike Cirba,

Hang in there, you won't be disappointed.

Your dismissal of the Crump revelation puzzles me.
The revelation occured about 90 years after his death, hardly an embarrassment to his immediate family.  It's the golf world that was stunned by MacWood's research, not his close friends and family.
And, it was the blind defenders of PV who jumped all over MacWood for "tainting" the image, in their minds.

You may recall that I too doubted MacWood's findings.
But, they were factually correct, and I give him credit for exercising due diligence in this area and not just accepting newspaper and magazine accounts, which some seem all to anxious to accept as the gospel.

Joe Bausch.

Give David Moriarty a little more time and all your questions will be answered.

All I ask is that you filter his words through an open and objective mind, absent a deliberate bias to refute his presentations.
I'd hope that you would read, consider and evaluate his presentations with no predisposition.

Thanks

[Mike Sweeney]

Give David Moriarty a little more time and all your questions will be answered.

All I ask is that you filter his words through an open and objective mind, absent a deliberate bias to refute his presentations.
I'd hope that you would read, consider and evaluate his presentations with no predisposition.

Thanks

Patrick,

Sorry, I personally have to move on. This cat and mouse game of presenting evidence to disprove Wayne and Tom is a waste of time and you should not be supporting this. These threads are no better than many other OT threads.

As someone who is genuinely interested in the history of Merion and Macdonald, I was hoping that David was going to present something of substance.

I don't have time for lawyers padding their time in the real world when I have to pay their bills and I don't have time here for that.

If David or someone wants to present their research or findings in a In My Opinion piece or a concise thread, I am all ears and eyes.

Thanks

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mike Sweeney,

You'll have to trust your old swing coach on this.

Stay tuned and I CERTAIN that some substantive, interesting questions and facts will be presented.

Hang in there, spring is just around the corner, I hope.

[Mike_Cirba]

Patrick,

Hillary Clinton was more forthcoming and timely with releasing her tax returns.

David's mistake is that he has no respect for the time and opinions of others and shows it with his constantly wasteful strategies and tactics.

That's why these threads turn into crap.

Ran,

Please delete this and wake me when it's over.

[Joe Bausch]

Joe Bausch.

Give David Moriarty a little more time and all your questions will be answered.

All I ask is that you filter his words through an open and objective mind, absent a deliberate bias to refute his presentations.
I'd hope that you would read, consider and evaluate his presentations with no predisposition.

Thanks

That is what I have been doing Patrick.  Have you seen me suggest that data he has was fabricated?

I wish you guys would speed the hell up with your presentation of new data.  The spring rates at General Washington are about to end and I really don't want to spend more than say 15 bucks walking at twilight for David, and even you too Patrick.  You both sound like a couple of guys that would be loads of fun to play golf with and chat afterwards over some liquid sustenance.   

[TEPaul]

Joe:

Pat is a fun guy to play golf with and chat with afterwards but it's not the kind of chat most know and expect. Let's say you spend an hour with him after the round, you basically just sit there quietly (because there is no possiblilty of gettting a word in edge-wise anyway) and watch him talk a blue streak and then you just thank him at the end of an hour and leave. 

[Patrick_Mucci]

Joe,

I only play golf, chat and imbibe on days that end in "Y"

Give David a little more time, you may not agree with his premise, but you won't be disappointed in his efforts, research and presentation.

[TEPaul]

Joe:

Pat is a fun guy to play golf with and chat with afterwards but it's not the kind of chat most know and expect. Let's say you spend an hour with him after the round, you basically just sit there quietly (because there is no possiblilty of gettting a word in edge-wise anyway) and watch him talk a blue streak for a solid hour and then you just thank him at the end of that hour and leave. One time at some club I actually watched Patrick get in his car to drive home and he was still talking a blue streak. There wasn't anyone in the car with him but that didn't seem to occur to him.

[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul,

Get with the modern world.

That's BLUE TOOTH technology.

I was talking in the car, but, thanks to hands free Blue Tooth Technology there was someone on the other end of the line.

However, in glancing in my rear view mirror, as I was pulling out of the parking lot, I noticed you yelling and gesturing wildly with your hands, but, noone else was there.  What were you doing, the Irish Jig ?

[TEPaul]

"That's BLUE TOOTH technology."

The only BLUE TOOTH technology you use, pal, is your mouth.

[DMoriarty]

I see that a number of posts have been deleted since last night.   Probably a good thing because, except for the posts by Mark Pearce, they were incredibly rude and inappropriate, and one was not only shockingly hostile, it was also factually inaccurate.    It is wrong to post hysterical, mean, nasty, and false diatribes then delete them and move on as if nothing ever happened.   It is dishonest.   

The other posters should be aware of the kind of rudeness and vulgarity that goes on in their absence.

[Mike_Cirba]

David,

I deleted nothing.

I stand by everything I said and would repeat it again today.

[DMoriarty]

David,

I deleted nothing.

I stand by everything I said and would repeat it again today.

And I am sure you will.   Nonetheless, TEPaul deleted many of his rude and vulgar posts.     

It would be nice if everyone thought about the appropriateness of their posts BEFORE posting, as you apparently did with your rude posts directed toward me. 

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