News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Environmentally friendly golf
« on: April 07, 2008, 04:15:54 PM »
Golf Digest gets behind environmentally friendly golf including rating courses on conditioning to preserve the environment (water being one of the biggest issues).

http://www.golfdigest.com/magazine/environment
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

John Kavanaugh

Re: Environmentally friendly golf
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2008, 04:30:27 PM »
How can we suggest courses become more environmentally friendly?  I would start by charging for scorecards and not allowing plastic tees.

John Foley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Environmentally friendly golf
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2008, 04:38:32 PM »
One of my biggest pet peeves if the lack of recycling done in places where people congregate.

I am sure many do a great job of recycling at home and at the office, but it sickens me to see the waste that could be recycles all around. Look at the the mall, the roadside rest area's etc.  Load that on top of the Aiports/airlines and then arena's and the likes and it add's up quickyl.

I'd love to see some courses start here.
Integrity in the moment of choice

John Kavanaugh

Re: Environmentally friendly golf
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2008, 04:45:16 PM »
Lawrence County Country Club has separate trash bins for beer cans and assorted trash.  A local degenerate non-member lives off of the can income.  It is purely a social cause with zero environmental considerations.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Environmentally friendly golf
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2008, 04:55:57 PM »
John,

GD is with you on the tees. They specify bio-degradable.

"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

John Keenan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Environmentally friendly golf
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2008, 05:36:06 PM »
I have not seen the bio-degradable tees in a long time are they still around?

Plastic Tees ?  Wood is what I use and what I see broken in tee box's.
The things a man has heard and seen are threads of life, and if he pulls them carefully from the confused distaff of memory, any who will can weave them into whatever garments of belief please them best.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Environmentally friendly golf
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2008, 05:46:59 PM »
John,

Wood is biodegradable. Plastic is not. I think that was the distinction they were after.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Environmentally friendly golf
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2008, 05:48:49 PM »
John,
Yes, they're still around. A company called Eco Tee makes them and you can buy 1,000 ($25.00/55.00 depending on length)  directly from them or by the bag from retailers.
   http://www.ecogolf.com/aboutUs.htm
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Environmentally friendly golf
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2008, 06:18:28 PM »
My club uses them.  They don't break very easily but they are difficult to get a ball to sit on them sometimes. 
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

astavrides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Environmentally friendly golf
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2008, 06:20:42 PM »
Lawrence County Country Club has separate trash bins for beer cans and assorted trash.  A local degenerate non-member lives off of the can income.  It is purely a social cause with zero environmental considerations.

Recycling aluminum is very important for the environment and sustainability.
http://www.wasteonline.org.uk/resources/InformationSheets/metals.htm
Who profits from it is a secondary concern.

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Environmentally friendly golf
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2008, 06:31:36 PM »
Larchmont Golf Course separates aluminum from all trash and the money generated from recycling pays for a huge staff party at seasons end. They also make all their own compost from clippings and leaves..
No one is above the law. LOCK HIM UP!!!

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Environmentally friendly golf
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2008, 07:35:59 PM »
 8)  Why not take on this subject of Environmentalism in a more holistic way, i.e, sustainable development, in 500 words..

The Future of Golf Course Architecture:
Sustainable Development Closes out the 6th Century of Golf

Golf course architecture (GCA) has come a long way since the mid to late 1400’s influence of the Scots on this ball, sticks, and hole game.  It is now more than ever about building a venue for a game that is simultaneously fun, challenging, and stressfull on the mind and body to perform well.  The fact that the present technology of the game’s tools is only matched by the tools and design perspective available to GCA professionals to create the next field of play, brings the future of GCA to a focus on sustaining its development smartly as it closes out its 6th century. 

Sustainable development in GCA touches upon social, environmental, and economic issues.  These must be integrated with the technological issues currently at hand but with a keen eye to the past and due consideration for the broader issues impacting future activities, like hazards lurking over the horizon.

Landbased Studies in GCA
Landbased studies are inextricably linked to maintaining historical perspectives within the future of GCA and thus directly related to enabling sustainable development.  Study of green spaces used for golfing will have to broadly consider GCA’s effects on human well-being and mental health within and external to the game by its use of visual design arts and thus involvement within a community.  The special role of plants/trees/and water in the field of play must be synergistic with larger environmental impacts within domains of control.

Science, Technology, & Engineering in GCA
Science, technology and their integration by engineering has a direct linkage with sustainable development in GCA, from the most basic environmental perspective of drainage, to managing the continuing use and conservation of natural and synthetic chemicals on golf courses, and in short term construction practices. There are many quantitative and qualitative scientific based skills to be learned or experts to be consulted in the design and performance of cost effective GCA in the future

The Business of GCA
The business of GCA must be prepared to address the social hurdles of legislation and regulation in the future as never before encountered.  In addition, the personal responsibility of GCA principals and task workers to perform professionally must now be seen within the larger context of social responsibility of the business in promoting and implementing sustainable development practices and policies.  this goes way beyond being "green".  Life cycle analysis and supply chain management will be needed to assure that future golfing venues can be sustained per their original design, and that ethical decisions are made in the sectors of investment and banking which ultimately support GCA.

Communication of the Virtues and Spirit of GCA
Golfers have many choices in terms of golf course economics, preferred aesthetics, and timing in their pursuit of the golfing experience.  The hospitality of area venues or larger tourism opportunities of an area will increasingly impact decisions relative to leisure businesses such as golf and communication of the greater virtues or the spirit embodied in an area’s development are thus a shared responsibility.  As perspective grows and values are recognized intellectually, people identify and relate to GCA beyond their play. As memories and perceptions of GCA evolve into acceptable topical thoughts, they will be re-experienced on a range of courses, and the art and presentation of GCA will thus endure. 

SAL 18Aug04, submission on The Future of Golf
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Environmentally friendly golf
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2008, 08:12:46 PM »
Bill Vostinak has a great blog entry about being environmental.  What's cool about his opinion is that while he doubts the merits of the global warming theory, he still states why it's important to conserve.  http://redanman.com/golfclimate.aspx

(for what it's worth, I'm a believer in global warming, and have been since my college chemistry professor explained the theory back in 1979.

I loved my first trip to Germany - every Autobahn rest area had clearly identified recycle containers that included different containers based on glass color and the like.  Pretty cool.

Would it be that difficult to develop a on-course recycling container that looks good, but would be used?
« Last Edit: April 07, 2008, 08:14:23 PM by Dan Herrmann »

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Environmentally friendly golf
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2008, 09:10:12 PM »
golf Digest says it twice in the article.
"firm yet receptive"

Why not "green yet brown"?

Boy that magazine has fallen a long way.

It is amazing how few public places recycle (which is where most of the canned/bottled goods are being consumed)
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Ryan Farrow

Re: Environmentally friendly golf
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2008, 10:35:58 PM »
Jeff, I'm not sure what your getting at here, I thought this was a splendid effort and showed a nice variety of opinions. It actually makes me want to buy a subscription......... but I still wont  ;). I think the lead they took on changing their course rating criteria is a noble, and necessary step. I don't see anything wrong with "firm yet receptive". I think your digging to deep into the comment. They made their point and position clear on firmness. Do you want to play to concrete hard greens?


I think we should all be proud of Dr. Hurdzan as he proved to be one of the most convincing and knowledgeable voices in this piece. I just wish more architects would carry a least a fraction of the dedication to environmental stewardship that he does.

I would have liked to hear a little more from "THE REGULATOR", Robert Wood about wetlands and wildlife and their role on a golf course, especially constructed wetlands. If only the right questions were asked, we could have gotten a lot of good information from this one.

I must also say that the piece on Ronald Dodson, from Audubon International was horrendous. Did he give us any real information or just try and bash the Audubon Society the whole time?

And kudos to the USGA and James Snow for making us all realize, once again, why golf courses have such a bad reputation for environmental stewardship.


All in all, a wonderful piece that everyone SHOULD READ. Seems like a lot of work and resources went into the piece.

Ryan Farrow

Re: Environmentally friendly golf
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2008, 10:37:41 PM »
And how typical of the Oregonian(?) to find this article for us all.

Mark Dorman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Environmentally friendly golf
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2008, 01:33:17 AM »
(water being one of the biggest issues).

end. desert. golf.

Steve Okula

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Environmentally friendly golf
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2008, 06:55:26 AM »
Do away with the soil fumigant methyl bromide, commonly used to sterilize golf greens before planting. Methyl bromide has been proven to be detrimental to the ozone layer. Anyone who's been to Australia or New Zealand in the past ten years knows how bad it's getting.

In most cases, soil fumigation is a waste of time anyway. A week after the plastic covers are removed the site is just as vulnerable to the invasion of weed seeds, insects, and fungal spores as if it had never been done at all.

In certain cases, for example, soil contaminated with common bermudagrass, fumigation is necessary, but can be effectively realized with other products, such as Basamid.

Methyl bromide is being phased out, and there is absolutely no reason for golf courses to be using it, though many still do. It's criminal.
The small wheel turns by the fire and rod,
the big wheel turns by the grace of God.

Don_Mahaffey

Re: Environmentally friendly golf
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2008, 06:57:31 AM »
(water being one of the biggest issues).

end. desert. golf.

Desert golf always gets brought up here...so let’s look at real desert golf.
Most desert golf courses are required to be irrigated with reclaimed water. That's water that was used by people to live first, and then cleaned and returned to the environment on green areas like golf courses. And when the water percolates through the course profile it is usually cleaner than when it was applied. Numerous studies show that golf courses are great filters for reclaimed water. Yes, some golf courses "waste" water, most desert golf courses use "waste" water.
One more thing, because of the dry, arid nature of deserts, a well managed desert course will apply almost no fungicides, and in many cases much less insecticides and herbicides. You just don't need to use as many pesticides because you have fewer pests.
Take an average desert course that uses reclaimed water and compare it against a similar mid-continent course and I think you'd be surprised which may be considered more environmentally friendly.

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Environmentally friendly golf
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2008, 09:06:16 AM »
How can we suggest courses become more environmentally friendly?  I would start by charging for scorecards and not allowing plastic tees.

What about those indestructible plastic brush like tees that should never break?
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Environmentally friendly golf
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2008, 11:20:52 AM »
some initial thoughts:

its a must read!

kudos to Golf Digest

very cool that they talked to a range of people

hopefully this will be a catalyst for more action, like lowering the need for courses to be so literally green.....

and i never knew that some courses PAINT their fairways green...are you kidding me??  that seems utterly ridiculous to me....

and their advice for people to get involved is great!
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Ryan Farrow

Re: Environmentally friendly golf
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2008, 12:28:52 PM »
I think we should all be proud of Dr. Hurdzan as he proved to be one of the most convincing and knowledgeable voices in this piece. I just wish more architects would carry a least a fraction of the dedication to environmental stewardship that he does.

Ryan,

You don't know what most architects do so that is not a fair statement.  It implies most of us give very little consideration to the environment, and you simply can't support your statement.  The firm that bears Hurdzans name has moved massive amounts of dirt on projects and that approach can be very destructive to a site for a period of time.  I am sure we could learn more if we looked more closely.

Kelly, please step up then and take some time to talk about some of the things you do. I think to call out some examples of massive earthwork is a pretty poor argument to make despite of all of his accomplishments. Yes I've had a limited experience, but in that time I have heard and seen some things that I will not talk about because it is nobody's business and frankly none of mine to be spreading. So maybe your right, I can't support my statement here but that does not mean I have no basis to make that claim.

If any architects want to dispute this claim they have the opportunity right now to do so.

Ron Farris

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Environmentally friendly golf
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2008, 04:55:33 PM »
I have a Hydroxyl Generator in my office. 
I think it will completely sterilize a green profile if it has a drain system and soil porosity.  It is used in sterilizing surgical operating rooms.  It is a green technology that is not exploited in golf, IMHO.  Is that good for ecological and sustainable golf?

I am fortunate to live in an environment where little chemicals are used on golf courses.  We see very little concern from environmental wacko types.  They are more interested in the destruction that 4-wheel ATV machines are doing to the forest.   

I trust that the Masters this week will inspire yet another golf developer to go GREEN not BROWN.

I distinctly remember Tom Doak saying that minimalism means doing the least to create the best.  Like the famed Dr. Mackenzie, he is a master of disguise.  He hides his earthwork, albeit massive or miniscule.

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Environmentally friendly golf
« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2008, 04:58:37 PM »
Ryan,

I'm impressed with your "guilty until proven innocent" approach. It's very American.

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Ryan Farrow

Re: Environmentally friendly golf
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2008, 09:57:55 PM »
Ryan,

I think massive earthmoving is very relevant to the discussion of environmentally sensitive approaches to golf course development.  I don't think I have to step up and prove my record to you in this forum.  While it is not always easy to do I don't think this is a forum for self promotion.  If you want to talk about specific environemental issues related to golf design and construction or general concepts great.  But, it isn't up to me to prove myself in this regard to you.  You have specific examples that you have heard about and wish not to disclose them here and that is your perogative, however you leave us with blanket statement condeming the environemental record of golf course architects.

Although I don't agree with mass earthwork either, its something that almost every firm has been a part of. So I don't know why you are singling Hurdzan out on this. All I was saying is, he has pushed the bar in many ways while others don't even acknowledge the ecologic and environmental side of golf. I read your design philosophy and see that you devoted a good chunk to your stance on minimalism among other things. But  you can still move a lot of earth and still have an incredible wildlife friendly golf course. The earth heals itself very fast and human impact can be unrecognizable in the period of a couple of years in some parts of the world. (I don't think your arguing the effects of CO2 from the diesel fuel, since you already claimed global warming is not  man-made? fact check?)

I must say that I was pleased to finally hear or see an architect talk about wildlife movement, habitat patches and corridors. Are there any golf courses in particular that you really pushed this or had noticeable results from maintaining or restoring habitat areas?

What I would really like to know is if any golf courses architects are thinking at a bigger scale, looking beyond their site and the few hundred acres they are developing, instead, looking at their design regionally. Looking at larger issues like the watershed, habitat patches, pollution data from rivers or creeks on site, and incorporating their analysis into the design.

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back