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Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Confidential Guide or Golf Architecture: which would YOU buy?
« on: April 04, 2008, 07:41:10 PM »
MacKenzian genius - £600/$1200:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk:80/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130211424523&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1123

Pretty eye-wateringly humungous moolah. But, I know where my money would go. (If I had it!)

I bet you can guess which is mine, but which is yours?
Simple two-letter answers please: CG or GA. Have at it....!

FBD.

I have the copy, naturally...
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The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Ryan Farrow

Re: Confidential Guide or Golf Architecture: which would YOU buy?
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2008, 07:44:26 PM »
I dont know how to say it in 2 letters but one you can buy one for about 30 bucks the other, for about 600. Take a wild guess.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2008, 07:51:06 PM by Ryan Farrow »
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Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Confidential Guide or Golf Architecture: which would YOU buy?
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2008, 07:47:02 PM »
NOT the original of either, Ryan.
Try again!
FBD.
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The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

J_ Crisham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Confidential Guide or Golf Architecture: which would YOU buy?
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2008, 07:49:27 PM »
Definitely The Confidential Guide- Although a bit pricey it is not only quite insightful but pretty hilarious in some of the reveiws. There is a reason it costs what it does-demand. Hope to see an updated version someday.
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Ryan Farrow

Re: Confidential Guide or Golf Architecture: which would YOU buy?
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2008, 07:49:53 PM »
OoOOOO.... easy, GA

Wait, what are we talking about again? An original copy of GA Vs. CG ?
« Last Edit: April 04, 2008, 07:51:55 PM by Ryan Farrow »
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Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Confidential Guide or Golf Architecture: which would YOU buy?
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2008, 08:00:08 PM »
GA by a mile.
GC if you are researching places to play.
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Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Confidential Guide or Golf Architecture: which would YOU buy?
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2008, 08:08:33 PM »
Peter,
not acceptable, I'm afraid.
You are a phenomenally erudite, intelligent man with a MASSIVE intellect to match.
My initial Post makes quite clear my requirement of respondents. TWO letters only.

No Kow-towing to popular culture please ;D

FBD.
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The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Confidential Guide or Golf Architecture: which would YOU buy?
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2008, 08:15:40 PM »
GA. Surprise, suprise! ;)
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"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

RSLivingston_III

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Confidential Guide or Golf Architecture: which would YOU buy?
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2008, 08:16:21 PM »
I think that is kind of pricey for a first edition GA in that poor of condition. Maybe something is lost in the devaluation of the dollar.
I have both and prefer GA.
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"You need to start with the hickories as I truly believe it is hard to get inside the mind of the great architects from days gone by if one doesn't have any sense of how the equipment played way back when!"  
       Our Fearless Leader

Kyle Harris

Re: Confidential Guide or Golf Architecture: which would YOU buy?
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2008, 08:48:14 PM »
GA
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Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Confidential Guide or Golf Architecture: which would YOU buy?
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2008, 02:26:17 AM »
Martin,
Thank gosh you were not asking our OT opinion about Fife United being the best women's soccer team in your area. :D
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Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Confidential Guide or Golf Architecture: which would YOU buy?
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2008, 03:41:02 AM »
GA

Ciao
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New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Brian Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Confidential Guide or Golf Architecture: which would YOU buy?
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2008, 11:45:27 AM »
That price is ridiculous.  I picked my copy in St. Andrews this year for 400 and it was in mint condition.

If I could get hold of an original first edition CG signed by TD then I would go for CG everytime as it is a great book and it is going to be worth more than GA when TD passes away.

TD will have designed more well designed courses than the Mac by the time he passes away and will probably go down in history as someone more important to design than Mac was.  TD is making a huge impact on the world of design in a period of huge competition and less sites whereas Mac was in an age of less competition and more sites...

Brian
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Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

Cory Brown

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Confidential Guide or Golf Architecture: which would YOU buy?
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2008, 01:02:08 PM »
GA for the money

Brian, I am sure Tom Doak will be happy to see how much you are looking forward to his demise.
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Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Confidential Guide or Golf Architecture: which would YOU buy?
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2008, 04:24:37 PM »
and, Mr Phillips,
what makes you think you are going to outlive the healthy-living Mr Doak? You don't think all that cold Norwegian air, aquavit, raw meat and pickled fish isn't having all kinds of nasty ill-effects on your internal systems? ;D

On the other hand, my good Scottish diet of haggis, porridge, whisky and deep-fried Mars bars will see me live to a good ripe old age. Why, I may even make 50 or 60... ;)

Maybe CG and GA wasn't a fair comparison for people to have to make?
Maybe Colt's Essays and GA would be better?

FBD.
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The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Mark Bourgeois

Re: Confidential Guide or Golf Architecture: which would YOU buy?
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2008, 05:18:32 PM »
Who's up for a big bulging can of sustromming [sic] right now?

Mr Bond, y'know they're just piles of pulp, ink and glue?

Although GA's ideas are freely accessible - free in every sense. You could print out a copy of the original and have it bound in leather to your personal specs for a fraction of that reseller's price.

Ex libris
Mark
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Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Confidential Guide or Golf Architecture: which would YOU buy?
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2008, 05:31:56 PM »
Quote from: Mark Bourgeois on April 05, 2008, 05:18:32 PM

Mr Bond, y'know they're just piles of pulp, ink and glue?


Mark,
how marvellously 'petite bourgeoisie' of you!!! ;) I'll bet you're quite the sans-culottes too!

And I suppose the Venus de Milo is just a lump of rock and the Mona Lisa merely some crushed rocks in oil daubed on canvas!?!!?

Curse the damned proletariat! Have you no soul man? (Sam and Dave, 1967)

best,
FBD.
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The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Mark Bourgeois

Re: Confidential Guide or Golf Architecture: which would YOU buy?
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2008, 05:41:15 PM »
Mr Bond

It's not like it's the Doctor's handwritten manuscript.

IMHO if it's A Mac you're after it's the ideas that matter.

And those are available to the entire world, free of charge, in the original text.

Yours in pettiness
Burgermeister
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Ken Moum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Confidential Guide or Golf Architecture: which would YOU buy?
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2008, 07:45:27 PM »
As a reader, not a collector I don't see that GA is worth almost 100 times what I paid for the reprint.

OTOH, there aren't any reprints of CG, and I'd love to read it.

Ken
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Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

BVince

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Confidential Guide or Golf Architecture: which would YOU buy?
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2008, 05:55:06 AM »
These books are entirely different.  I would suggest GA because it discusses more of the theories about design versus TD's commentary about golf courses used to help people determine where to play.  I like forming my own opinions of what I like or dislike about a course more than going into a course with a preconceived notion, but it is enjoyable to compare your thoughts to one of the best architects of our time.  I just try to read his comments after I played the course to avoid any of the subconcious effects of hearing others' opinions.

IMHO - The contents of book itself should mean more to you than the monetary value associated to it.
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If profanity had an influence on the flight of the ball, the game of golf would be played far better than it is. - Horace Hutchinson

Kirk Gill

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Confidential Guide or Golf Architecture: which would YOU buy?
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2008, 11:14:26 AM »
Quote from: Bryon Vincent on April 06, 2008, 05:55:06 AM
IMHO - The contents of book itself should mean more to you than the monetary value associated to it.

Of course, but book collectors are after something very different than just the words - it's the object, and its history, that speak to them, not just the actual writing within. Just like any collector.

That said, GA.

CG would be an excellent reference, but GA would be a READ.

For those with both, am I far off?
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"After all, we're not communists."
                             -Don Barzini

Doug Siebert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Confidential Guide or Golf Architecture: which would YOU buy?
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2008, 02:09:22 AM »
Quote from: Cory Brown on April 05, 2008, 01:02:08 PM
GA for the money

Brian, I am sure Tom Doak will be happy to see how much you are looking forward to his demise.


Well, perhaps he's not looking forward to it happening too soon since the more great courses Tom designs in the meantime the more the book would be worth after his death ;D
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Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Confidential Guide or Golf Architecture: which would YOU buy?
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2008, 04:00:39 AM »
CG

my reasoning... if you are purely looking for "value for money" or investment, then CG wins by a mile... first edition GA is only worth the same 88 years after it was written...

the reason CG is worth so much more is that it appeals to a wider audience, not just golf architects and historians...
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Neil_Crafter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Confidential Guide or Golf Architecture: which would YOU buy?
« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2008, 07:18:05 AM »
GA
especially if you're lucky enough to have one inscribed by the author! :D

but then again so is my CG!
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Paul_Turner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Confidential Guide or Golf Architecture: which would YOU buy?
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2008, 07:54:15 AM »
That GA is way over priced in that condition.  A beautiful condition GA (Frank Pennink's personal copy!) was just sold in auction for about 500 quid after commission.

My CG is in very poor nick,  too much perusal;  I should have looked after it better, but I had no idea it would be worth this much.

Anyway I'd choose The CG.
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