[Phil_the_Author]

Melvyn,

Maybe I can get you to reconsider your decision to come across the pond. Bethpage Black has a rule that allows NO CARTS to be used. You must walk unless you have a recognized handicap that REQUIRES you to use a cart, in which case they have special carts for that circumstances. This must be arranged beforehand and not on the day of play.

So you see, there is at least one world-class course in America that you will enjoy playing! 

[mike_beene]

One person carts that go closer to a walkers speed would solve the whole issue. The two person carts going a faster speed create a different culture. As it is,walkers are often treated like people who special order at McDonalds.

[Sean_A]

I don't believe carts in and of themselves are bad though I really do detest cartpaths intefering with the game both visually and physically.  That said, there are very good reasons for carts and one of them can certainly be the odd bit of laziness from time to time.  I personally don't like them and I really don't like it if a group is split with carters & walkers.  I would almost always volunteer to keep my sticks in a cart (hopefully I wouldn't be charged extra!) to stop this from happening.  However, like Kyle, I do think there is a danger in courses not being designed properly for the walker and it does beg the question if some courses should be built at all if they can't be walked.

Now, in competition its a totally different ball game.  I am a staunch believer in walking and that no carts (or even electric trolleys and I wouldn't mind seeing caddies banned in comps either) should be allowed.  Stamina and fitness are part of any sport and golf should be no different.  I will guarantee you that guys have lost tournies because they weren't as fit as some of the other competitors and I don't see why a less fit guy should be able to wipe out that advantage by using a cart. 

Ciao

[Melvyn Morrow]

For my sins I have always believed that we each have the right to our opinion and the right to voice it (in whichever manner we wish within the law of the land).

Call me whatever you want, it will not change my belief that golf is about walking a course trying to put a ball down one of either 9 or 18 holes in the least number of strokes. This is how it started, this is the way I was taught and it is the way I would like to keep it.

If it’s good enough for the Professionals to walk the course in THE OPEN, then it must be good enough for the average player.

If your game is about making life easy for you (I wont call it lazy) and hence the need for electronic aids including the ubiquitous cart, then fine, I can accept that. But I don’t regard it as real golf, as aids are used. I would never stop the use of a cart on medical grounds.

If you want to play with these aids, I just ask that it is not called Golf, it’s clearly not true golf but golf with aids. To resolve this matter, perhaps we should clearly distinguish between the two types of courses available (I am totally excluding Cartball as I don’t fully understand the concept of the game).  First, a course for the original game of Golf to be played  using ones feet (a walking course), perhaps with the odd cart for those with a medical problem (NO cart path). The second would be for American Golf, including all aids, carts etc that makes your game playable, with or without walking areas. Clearly identify the two types of courses, because it is not the same game, subtle differences perhaps, but still differences. Not quite the same but similar to our type of football played worldwide and American football.

Let’s not forget that these aids are new and have only been around for a relative short time, yet they have been allowed to run riot and many clubs have a No Walking Policy, changing the nature of how golf is played.

What surprises me the most is that the majority, if not all who read this do not need to use aids to play, let alone to enjoy a round of golf.

To some, I may come across as old fashioned or a traditionalist, because I am standing up for golf as it has been played for centuries. Those over 40 may understand, as they started playing in the pre cart & electronic era. To those who are younger, look and see how golf is played using feet/eye/brain combination and remember.
   
 

[Doug Ralston]

For my sins I have always believed that we each have the right to our opinion and the right to voice it (in whichever manner we wish within the law of the land).

Call me whatever you want, it will not change my belief that golf is about walking a course trying to put a ball down one of either 9 or 18 holes in the least number of strokes. This is how it started, this is the way I was taught and it is the way I would like to keep it.

If it’s good enough for the Professionals to walk the course in THE OPEN, then it must be good enough for the average player.

If your game is about making life easy for you (I wont call it lazy) and hence the need for electronic aids including the ubiquitous cart, then fine, I can accept that. But I don’t regard it as real golf, as aids are used. I would never stop the use of a cart on medical grounds.

If you want to play with these aids, I just ask that it is not called Golf, it’s clearly not true golf but golf with aids. To resolve this matter, perhaps we should clearly distinguish between the two types of courses available (I am totally excluding Cartball as I don’t fully understand the concept of the game).  First, a course for the original game of Golf to be played  using ones feet (a walking course), perhaps with the odd cart for those with a medical problem (NO cart path). The second would be for American Golf, including all aids, carts etc that makes your game playable, with or without walking areas. Clearly identify the two types of courses, because it is not the same game, subtle differences perhaps, but still differences. Not quite the same but similar to our type of football played worldwide and American football.

Let’s not forget that these aids are new and have only been around for a relative short time, yet they have been allowed to run riot and many clubs have a No Walking Policy, changing the nature of how golf is played.

What surprises me the most is that the majority, if not all who read this do not need to use aids to play, let alone to enjoy a round of golf.

To some, I may come across as old fashioned or a traditionalist, because I am standing up for golf as it has been played for centuries. Those over 40 may understand, as they started playing in the pre cart & electronic era. To those who are younger, look and see how golf is played using feet/eye/brain combination and remember.
   
 

How is it the you get to define what is 'golf aids' and what is not? When Saun O'Whatshisname found it fun to use his farm tool to knock a rock into a coney hole in 1397, was THAT the origional, therefor only, definition of golf?

Do you carry more that one farm implement? In an artificial bag? With little covered rubber round things that could never have been made by Saun?

Just exactly when did the righteous inherit the right to define the World in their own, preferred, image?

Again, you have you choices. Fine. Why do you feel some special previledge to define other people's choices, and to proclaim them less worthy than your own?

Yes, I am certain you have played great and famous courses, and heard about those 'giants' of yesteryear. Perhaps in 1397 you would have been an Aristocrat, who could have influenced proclaimations to define 'gowf'. Today is a new day! Peasants of the World, unite.

Am I am glad, GLAD, you here, that golf carts exist! I am glad that refrigerators exist. I am glad American Footballers have pads. I am glad the computers are available to peasants.

Ah, the 21st century. Welcome, welcome.

Doug

[Lloyd_Cole]

Stamina and fitness are part of any sport and golf should be no different.  I will guarantee you that guys have lost tournies because they weren't as fit as some of the other competitors and I don't see why a less fit guy should be able to wipe out that advantage by using a cart. 

Sean

I was thinking the same thing. Monty at Oakmont comes to mind, Daly every week, and on the other side of the coin - Tiger at last year's PGA.

[Eric Smith]

I've changed my mind.  I think Melvyn's got a point.  Trouble is, alot of courses in the US need golf cart revenue to survive.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Eric

I am please to read your story, and great to see that your grandfather is still with you and playing golf at 88 (on a cart or not). My uncle played until he was 90, but had to use a cart to play 9 holes. As for my father he died on a golf course in Nigeria at the age of 62, he was, as always walking.

I have always said that I support the right for all to play golf, even if it means that they need an aid to do so. Clearly senior members of our family have the right to be assisted in playing a game they love.

Your comment 'And please don't blame America(ns) for the ills of the game'.
I have not blamed America, I have just said and I quote

 ‘The second would be for American Golf, including all aids, carts etc that makes your game playable, with or without walking areas. Clearly identify the two types of courses, because it is not the same game, subtle differences perhaps, but still differences. Not quite the same but similar to our type of football played worldwide and American football’.

You have the right to your opinion, so do I. But the best part of your post is that you are able to play with your grandfather with or without the aid of a cart Enjoy and remember each and every game you play with him.


Doug

I must say you are one angry guy, bitter and twisted – IMHO

Hope you don’t play your type of golf in this frame of mind

It seems that you have looked into my family tree and found a
Sir Ian Morrow, but that not me, I have no title apart from Mr.

If your game needs aids to assist you – well sorry to hear that
and good luck.

Do you also have a drink problem? As it may explain your conduct
and uncalled for manner.

Sir, you are a disgrace and have let yourself down with the way you have presented your argument. How can you ever be taken seriously again?

[John Keenan]

Not to enter this "discussion" as I do not really have a dog in the fight as they say it should be noted that many US courses are designed to sell homes and real estate. As such the length from green to the next tee box is a block away or so. The length and reasonableness to walk these courses is questionable.

As to carts versus no carts as they say they are many roads to Dublin.

[Phil_the_Author]

Melvyn,

These questions are not meant as argumentative but as an attempt to define. You are against artificial aids to the game of golf.

What about the standard trolley on which bags are set and pulled? That's as artificial an aid as a motorized cart with the only difference being the lack of a motor.

What about the caddy himself? Surely he is artificial to the player (especially the way some oafs treat them) and by his very presence has removed from the player the challenge of playing golf while carrying his own clubs. That was the way the game was invented and caddies are really a modern addition to the game when considering it's age.

[Doug Ralston]

For my sins I have always believed that we each have the right to our opinion and the right to voice it (in whichever manner we wish within the law of the land).

]DO you think so now? Even I? DR]

Call me whatever you want, it will not change my belief that golf is about walking a course trying to put a ball down one of either 9 or 18 holes in the least number of strokes. This is how it started, this is the way I was taught and it is the way I would like to keep it.

[And by all means you should, for yourself. DR[

If it’s good enough for the Professionals to walk the course in THE OPEN, then it must be good enough for the average player.

If your game is about making life easy for you (I wont call it lazy) and hence the need for electronic aids including the ubiquitous cart, then fine, I can accept that. But I don’t regard it as real golf, as aids are used. I would never stop the use of a cart on medical grounds.

If you want to play with these aids, I just ask that it is not called Golf, it’s clearly not true golf but golf with aids. To resolve this matter, perhaps we should clearly distinguish between the two types of courses available (I am totally excluding Cartball as I don’t fully understand the concept of the game).  First, a course for the original game of Golf to be played  using ones feet (a walking course), perhaps with the odd cart for those with a medical problem (NO cart path). The second would be for American Golf, including all aids, carts etc that makes your game playable, with or without walking areas. Clearly identify the two types of courses, because it is not the same game, subtle differences perhaps, but still differences. Not quite the same but similar to our type of football played worldwide and American football.

[What should we unworthy called it Mel? Gowf? That would indeed be origional. DR]

Let’s not forget that these aids are new and have only been around for a relative short time, yet they have been allowed to run riot and many clubs have a No Walking Policy, changing the nature of how golf is played.

[Wooden clubs rather than farm implements have been around a long time. DR]

What surprises me the most is that the majority, if not all who read this do not need to use aids to play, let alone to enjoy a round of golf.

[Need? No. Want. Yes. DR]

To some, I may come across as old fashioned or a traditionalist, because I am standing up for golf as it has been played for centuries. Those over 40 may understand, as they started playing in the pre cart & electronic era. To those who are younger, look and see how golf is played using feet/eye/brain combination and remember.

[It is indeed, and is about trying to use them implements/clubs to get the ball across whatever barriers from tee to cup. No definition implied about what you need to do BETWEEN shots. Is beer an aid, to be forbidden? Water? Food? Or should each of us judge on our own.

Can I please now call whatever I play to get from tee to cup 'golf', sir? DR]
   
 

Did I seem rude and angry to you? Oddly, most who play 'golf' with me think I laugh too much and am way too non-serious about my game.

Melvyn, I do not object to you playing as you like, I encourage it. And you may call it golf, for it is. So is what I do. Do not tell me I do not play 'worthy golf', then complain that I am rude to YOU. The only thing the angers me here is the unvarnished judgementalism that manifests so often in these discussions. I am, as always, an eclectic. I mistrust such absolutes to my very soul.

Doug

[Melvyn Morrow]

Philip

I understand your comments or hope I do. The game of Golf IMHO is about a course with 18 holes, greens fairway and tees.

Equipment to include a set of clubs, balls, tees (sand for the real old traditionalist among us), golf bag for storage of clubs. Carry the bag or trolley for those with back problems. As for the clubs and balls as long as they are reliable and consistent – that’s all I need. As for a Caddy, I am happy without one, as for the bag, just for the convenience of keep clubs together. Nothing that will give me an advantage over my last game on the same course or against my playing partner(s).

No electronic aids, no cart, but yes a bag, clubs, ball and tees. Oh yes scores card with map if it’s a new course. I keep saying it - most don’t need these aids to play golf – also golf is changing by the fact that we allow No Waking Courses – golf has always involved walking and I no longer have the right to walk all these courses because I presume the revenue carts generate – sorry Guys but this is not golf in the true sense of the word.


Doug

It’s a pity you don’t practice what you preach

Yes you have a right to your opinion – so do I
I will continue playing as I was taught, but I can’t play on No Walking courses unless I compromise my game and beliefs - so these course are closed to me.
You seem good with names, call it what you want.
Use farm implements if it helps your game.
Want – yes that about right – I want, I want, I want – rather apt.
Rebel without a cause – enjoy your beer

For my sins I have always believed that we each have the right to our opinion and the right to voice it (in whichever manner we wish within the law of the land). There is my answer to you – as for judgemental – just look in a mirror

[Kyle Harris]

Melvyn,

You make it extremely difficult to agree with you with such partisan language. I find your distinction between Golf and American Golf offensive and remarkably prejudiced. I grew up in a caddy program that is probably stronger than any you'd find anywhere else in the world on one of your so-called American courses with a membership dedicated to keeping it strong.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Kyle

I am sorry you feel this way, it is not
my intention to offend anyone.

Melvyn

[Kyle Harris]

Kyle

I am sorry you feel this way, it is not
my intention to offend anyone.

Melvyn

I understand and apology accepted. However, to arbitrarily knock technology in one aspect that is more visible than others in terms of player aid is shaky ground.

Manufacturing and process technology has done more to aid the golfer through technology than any distance measuring device or golf cart ever has. Now a set can be frequency matched and individual deficiencies in club manufacture are all but eliminated. The differences between a 3 iron and 7 iron are in loft and length only, when 70 years ago there were many more differences.

The game has fundamentally shifted with the advent of mass produced equipment, for the player no longer needs to learn and adjust to individual clubs and their tendencies and quirks.

I am curious how the traditionalist argument carries on in this regard. I'm not necessarily talking materials, as hickory shafted clubs can be manufactured to specific quality standards today, I'm talking about the process.

In other words, have six sigma black belts ruined golf?

[Paul Stephenson]

Are yardage books an "aid"?

If so then golf has not been played at THE OPEN for many years now; or any other professional tournament for that matter.

[Bill_McBride]

Somebody famous once said, "America and England, two great countries divided by a common language!"

It's pretty obvious that golf has also diverged significantly between the two great countries, with Scotland, Ireland, and I'll bet Australia and New Zealand following England.

In everywhere but America -- can't speak for Canada -- golf remains a game primarily played on foot based on tradition.   America has headed in the direction of the golf cart for a variety of reasons: housing developments, economics, acceptability, practice.

Nobody's right, nobody's wrong, that's just how it is.

I do have to say I was shocked a couple of years ago to see two healthy young lads racing around the Balcomie course at Crail in a buggy!  And it's certainly not shocking to see 75% of the golfers at our club here in carts on a warm, sunny day Sunday.

[Kalen Braley]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I would also add location to the list of criteria.

Here in northern Utah, many of the courses are what one would call mountain golf...and for the most part are the funner/interesting to play layouts, over the flat ones in the valley.  In the middle of summer, when its frequently over 100 degrees, walking 18 on flat land, while an issue of hydration, is solvable.  Throw in the equation of being at elevation, (4500 feet), and then having severe undulation/hill climbing, walking in these conditions is downright dangerous for anyone short of being in superb shape and carrying at least 2 gallons of water.

Last time I checked though, golf was supposed to be about having fun, not a death march.  Sure I could always move, but then again, golf is not the primary indicator of where my family and I will live.... In fact its fairly far down the list. So while golf originated in flattish, cool weathered, walkable regions, we can't all live in Scotland.

If others don't consider riding in a cart, golf, thats fine with me.  Because last time I checked, I just go out on weekends and hack it around for a bit of fun.  Others can call it whatever they want, and it doesn't really concern me in the slightest.

P.S.  As a challenge, if anyone can walk my local course in July, I'll re-imburse them thier green fee and give em a hundred bucks to boot.  But I doubt that will cover the ambulance bill...

[Criss Titschinger]

Just curious, how many let their partner drive the cart and then walk the course?

When I come to a course that mandates carts, that's what I do.

Plenty of times.  The weekend golf league I'm a member of is pretty much forced by the courses we play to include cart (to drive revenue) since we generally play prime-time on Saturday morning.  If the course is walkable and allows it, I'll walk despite paying the up charge for the cart.  If the course is not walkable (see Aston Oaks in Cincinnati), I'll walk the parts I can, and ride when needed.  Like someone else said, nothing quite like taking a 200 yard walk with only a putter in your hand and having your bag moved for you.

[M. Shea Sweeney]

Melvyn--all-

Carts are keeping the game alive. I am  thankful for the invention.

Mike

[Doug Siebert]

Melvyn,

I walk just about every time I play, and wouldn't raise any fuss personally if carts were banned for all except those who had a medical reason to require them.  But any chance you had of winning support is gone due to your extreme position that one isn't even a golfer if they don't walk.

I don't begrudge those who need to use a cart to get around the course, or just choose to do so due to laziness or whatever.  I know a guy who does Ironman triathalons who always takes a cart.  Obviously it isn't that he can't walk, and its certainly not making any difference for him in terms of fatigue whether he walks or rides.  He just thinks of golf as a riding sport, which is too bad I guess but its his choice (you'll certainly never convince him that there's any physical exertion involved when you think about what his idea of physical exertion is)

Did you ever stop to think that maybe carts aren't a part of golf's history and traditions because motorized vehicles didn't exist when golf started?  If tradition is your only guide one could say that you aren't really a churchgoer if you use a car to get there instead of a horse drawn carriage, and you aren't really a hunter if you use a gun or a bow rather than a wooden spear tipped with a flint point you shaped yourself.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Thank you all for your opinions, that’s what is so good about GCA.com.

I find it interesting that whilst I have always stated that we all have a right to free thought and opinions, it seems that my opinion (re carts) is regarded as either extreme, prejudiced or offensive.

To try and clear the air, let me explain how I was introduced to Golf by my father in the 1960’s at St Andrews. I quote from an e-mail I sent a fellow member of GCA.com

‘Remembering what my father said and taught me, that winning was just a bonus, it was the game, each stroke that mattered, the open natural surroundings, the way the wind comes off the sea would take a high ball – never to be found. We judge distance with our eyes, walked every course. That is what matters to me – I want to protect my memories, and the game itself in its raw true state that we played in Scotland.

I have never wanted to stop anyone playing golf, I just want to open their eyes to what we might loose if we don’t acknowledge that these are aids, not always essential to playing or enjoying the game, but as we have seen they are changing our game i.e. No Walking courses – to me, a betrayal of my family values. If Carts are the way forward, then so be it, but not without a fight from me’.

When I started playing Golf there were no Carts and no cart paths, the norm was to always walk as it had been for centuries, yet within 40 years there are courses that will not let you walk.  ‘No Walking Policies’ – either take a cart or find another course, now that is what I call extreme, prejudiced or offensive. Has it improved golf, has it added to the magic of the game, no, I don’t think so but I will accept that  it has aided a few who need assistance to play golf (which I do not object to). What it has done is changed golf, the very means of getting around a course has totally changed, in many cases there is just no walking option, others perhaps at certain times of the day. To me, getting to the your ball as quickly as you can is destroying the part of the pleasure of the game, the ability to absorb the surroundings, notice the contours of the course, as you approach your ball you have decided your next shot and selected your club. I enjoyed seeing others walking ahead of us down the fairway, waiting to follow. This part of the game has disappeared on No Walking Courses, so to me the game of golf has been changed and for what actual benefit ? Is it just to speed up the game for a few more coins?

Carts and No Walking courses are already in the UK, restrict choice to those who play the original walking game, forcing change either use another course or hire a cart.

I’m not extreme, although sometimes I consider I should match some of the comments I receive on here, but I accept that I may come across as passionate. Perhaps with my family connection to the game and seeing very little evidence of anyone trying to stop the No Walking Policy Clubs/courses I jump in feet first.

At the end of the day it’s a question of majority rule – perhaps I am fighting a loosing battle, unlike Nero who just watched as Rome burnt, I will go down fighting for the great game of Golf.

Whatever your opinion, I hope you enjoy your Golf

[Mike Golden]

Thank you all for your opinions, that’s what is so good about GCA.com.

I find it interesting that whilst I have always stated that we all have a right to free thought and opinions, it seems that my opinion (re carts) is regarded as either extreme, prejudiced or offensive.

To try and clear the air, let me explain how I was introduced to Golf by my father in the 1960’s at St Andrews. I quote from an e-mail I sent a fellow member of GCA.com

‘Remembering what my father said and taught me, that winning was just a bonus, it was the game, each stroke that mattered, the open natural surroundings, the way the wind comes off the sea would take a high ball – never to be found. We judge distance with our eyes, walked every course. That is what matters to me – I want to protect my memories, and the game itself in its raw true state that we played in Scotland.

I have never wanted to stop anyone playing golf, I just want to open their eyes to what we might loose if we don’t acknowledge that these are aids, not always essential to playing or enjoying the game, but as we have seen they are changing our game i.e. No Walking courses – to me, a betrayal of my family values. If Carts are the way forward, then so be it, but not without a fight from me’.

When I started playing Golf there were no Carts and no cart paths, the norm was to always walk as it had been for centuries, yet within 40 years there are courses that will not let you walk.  ‘No Walking Policies’ – either take a cart or find another course, now that is what I call extreme, prejudiced or offensive. Has it improved golf, has it added to the magic of the game, no, I don’t think so but I will accept that  it has aided a few who need assistance to play golf (which I do not object to). What it has done is changed golf, the very means of getting around a course has totally changed, in many cases there is just no walking option, others perhaps at certain times of the day. To me, getting to the your ball as quickly as you can is destroying the part of the pleasure of the game, the ability to absorb the surroundings, notice the contours of the course, as you approach your ball you have decided your next shot and selected your club. I enjoyed seeing others walking ahead of us down the fairway, waiting to follow. This part of the game has disappeared on No Walking Courses, so to me the game of golf has been changed and for what actual benefit ? Is it just to speed up the game for a few more coins?

Carts and No Walking courses are already in the UK, restrict choice to those who play the original walking game, forcing change either use another course or hire a cart.

I’m not extreme, although sometimes I consider I should match some of the comments I receive on here, but I accept that I may come across as passionate. Perhaps with my family connection to the game and seeing very little evidence of anyone trying to stop the No Walking Policy Clubs/courses I jump in feet first.

At the end of the day it’s a question of majority rule – perhaps I am fighting a loosing battle, unlike Nero who just watched as Rome burnt, I will go down fighting for the great game of Golf.

Whatever your opinion, I hope you enjoy your Golf

I agree with Melvyn that carts are a blight on the game of golf and will most likely ruin it in the US within the next 25-30 years.  For me it will not matter since I will leave no legacy and will only have my own memories to remind me of the greatness of this game and the joy of a walk through nature enhanced by playing a sport that is the ultimate combination of athletic skill and mental acuity.

Melvyn has a different perspective because of his relationship to Old Tom Morris and I completely understand his concerns.  To see 4 healthy men in their 20's decide to all ride on a muni course where it is carts on path only (as I did at North Fulton GC on Sunday) is so discouraging it is almost enough to make me move to the UK in order to continue enjoying golf as I know it.

[Jason Connor]

  ‘No Walking Policies’ – either take a cart or find another course, now that is what I call extreme, prejudiced or offensive.

AMEN!  I've said I'm ok with everyone having their choice.   If Melvyn is criticized for saying "Golf is a walking game" by some, then those who are declaring "Golf is a riding game" (and there are many many clubs that claim this) should be equally open to being called extreme, prejudiced, or offensive or just foolishly greedy (and I'm ok with Greedy, but as has been discussed, this is foolishly greedy).

[Lloyd_Cole]

Clubs would do well to promote fitness and walking to the benefit of many of their patrons, but there would be a conflict of interest, just as they would do well to promote junior golf American clubs know most men don't want to see kids on their course so the clubs take care of their short term interest without regard for the long term negative impacts.

Most of us here agree that we can't go around telling other how to live their lives, with one exception, that Kelly had just reminded me of. Let's be sure carts don't kill off the game we love. I for one will never let either of my kids take a cart as long as it's my job to tell them how to live, and here's hoping they agree with my call when they are of age.

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