The Back of Redan

[Marty Bonnar]

Copyright: Redanman.com 2008

NO! - Not THAT one!

THIS one...






Somewhat unfit for golf after a pretty heavy night in The Marine Hotel (very much a GCA-recommended maison de golf!), we chose to wander the West Links in a rather vain attempt at head-clearing. I was very taken with this view of #15, which I have never really appreciated before.
I quite like the 'wider the margin of error, the larger the bunker' approach to hazarding!


And some other wee tasters of the wondrous West Links:





FBD.

[Bill_McBride]

It's not a bad play at all to go over the Redan at North Berwick, that's a relatively simple chip back up to the hole.

A lot better than being short in the front bunker!   

[Marty Bonnar]

Agreed, Unc.
I will purposefully try long the next time I play the WL. That 'chipping area' (eek!) is more than adequate.
If only I hadn't been quite sooooooo hungover, I may even have tried last week
C U Soon!
MB.

[George_Bahto]

FBD:  I was very impressed with the rear of Redan!!

I knew what to expect but was really enthralled with it when I saw it in person last spring (wow, was it that ong ago?)

There were a couple other features that really caught my eye that not many seem to have captured   (YET)

Great stuff Martin G.

[TEPaul]

Martin:

Redan holes and greens have been discussed to death on this website but you make a really fine point that I don't think has been mentioned before in mentioning what happens if you go over the back of one (the back of a redan green's axis).

I think the best of them offer the back of the green behind the green's axis as something of a nuancy safe play. Probably the best that way is NGLA. Since I hit it pretty close the one time I played NB I never really looked what it was like behind the green's axis. Behind Shinnecock's isn't bad either.

I've always loved Piping's Redan because it's pretty high in relation to the tee but that is not one that offers a safe recovery if you go behind that green's axis.

[Patrick_Mucci]

FBD,

The rear of NGLA's and other Redan greens offers a benign lie and a favorable area to recover from, especially if the hole is cut toward the back or in the center of the green.

I think CBM might have intentionally offered sanctuary long, due to the prevailing wind and the likelihood that many balls would roll off the back of the green.

[James Bennett]

I think the best of them offer the back of the green behind the green's axis as something of a nuancy safe play. Probably the best that way is NGLA. Since I hit it pretty close the one time I played NB I never really looked what it was like behind the green's axis. Behind Shinnecock's isn't bad either.

Riviera #4 has a similar characteristic, although not a Redan as such.  The tempting safe play is to the right, but the downhill pitch is very difficult to get close (although not as nigh impossible as the bunker shot from below the rhs of the Redan green at NBW).  The fronting bunkers at Riviera are fearful in appearance, but a shot that carries them will at worst finish behind the green in light rough with a straight uphill pitch (with a small undulation about 3 metres behind the green).

It is not surprising that Hogan rated Riviera #4 as highly as he did.

James B

[Andrew Mitchell]

Martin

Pictures of the West Links never fail to get the juices flowing!

I have a recollection of my tee shot at Redan finishing through the back where your photo is taken from and I walked away with a 3.  As Bill says its a much easier up & down from there than the front bunker.  I've been in there as well and not walked away with anything approaching a 3!!

I'm not sure I'd fancy playing my third at the Pit from where you've taken your picture. You probably can't hold the green from there,  although you could use the wall as a back stop for a rebound

I haven't stopped at the Marine since its major overhaul.  I'd heard it was overpriced without the service to match.  How did you find it?

[Jon Wiggett]

Martin,

I thought playing long was a standard practice or atleast I have used it (or tried) every time I play the hole. The chip back is fairly straight forward leading maybe to less birdies but also a hell of alot less bogeys unless of course your foursomes partner thins it through in to the front bunker

[Britt Rife]

Charles Banks' Redan at the Annapolis Golf Club has essentially the same back as his Eden hole on the same course.  If you go over on the Redan, you risk OOB, and if you remain in bounds, you will find that you have a sheer 10' cliff to play over to a green that runs away from you (the Eden features an approximately 13' hill with the green running away, but even faster than the Redan).

[Chuck Brown]

This is a very good point about Redan-type holes.  One of the first things that Geoffrey Cornish did after being asked to visit and consult at the Colt-designed Country Club of Detroit, was to restore a back-side apron to their Redan, I believe it is 16.  Previously, it had been a typical raised island green sourrounded by rough.

To me, it isn't a Redan without that feature.  But not because it offers more bailout; rather, because it places a premium on picking a strategy and then playing to the correct distance.

Great pictures; thanks for this thread!

[James Bennett]

It's not a bad play at all to go over the Redan at North Berwick, that's a relatively simple chip back up to the hole.

A lot better than being short in the front bunker!   

Bill isn't short, although he looks 'dwarfed' by the fronting greenside bunker in this shot.



James B

[Ed Oden]

Here is a picture taken today of the back of the redan at Yeamans Hall.

[Bradley Anderson]

The back of Shoreacre's redan is not benign.

[scott_wood]

neither is Mt Lake's......a relatively flat bunker awaits the errant long straight and long middle shot, ....being in said bunker however leaves one confronte with a 3-4' face, with SEVERE green slope away ....NASTY.....long left is the play @ Mt Lake....