[Norbert P]

  Why isn't South Carolina a world golf destination for golf course architecture enthusiasts?

  Did it take a wrong turn somewhere in golf philosophy?

  Why do Eastern Americans trod across the continent to play Bandon when they've got 380 courses in SC?  

(This is not a slam post, I just find it odd that there's so much going on there, with nice weather to boot, yet, beyond Kiawah, it gets very little respect.)

[John Kavanaugh]

Kiawah doe not have as nice of winters.  It is more expensive.  The other courses suck.  I had a great time a few years ago playing Pinehurst #2 one day and Kiawah the next.  It was a great trip but one hell of a lot of road time when compared to Bandon.  I also don't think Kiawah has poker.

Bandon is the only place that I know of where guys like me that love cheap rates and bad weather collect in large numbers.  

[Brent Hutto]

Compared to the Bandon Resort per se (which I've yet to visit BTW) it's hard to find similarly pseudo-links conditions on the South Carolina coast. So the weather is a bit better in the winter, much worse (hot and humid) in the summer and although drier year-round an awful lot of the courses drain like rice paddies even if it hasn't rain in a couple days.

But otherwise, I share your wonder that we aren't often anywhere near the top of GCA must-go lists. It is just super easy to travel between areas like Aiken/Augusta, Beaufort/Hilton Head and the Grand Strand/Pawley's/Charleston/Kiawah stretch not to mention plenty of good courses here and there around the state. You can drive anywhere between Kiawah and RTJ's Dunes Club in 50, 60, 70 minutes (avoiding rush hour of course) or between the Beaufort and Aiken areas in 2-3 hours. String it all together and you can find an awful long vacation's worth of architectural interest.

[John Kavanaugh]

You might also note that Pete Dye seems to build the kind of course that a guy visits with his wife.  Of course he has his along with him as it is being built.

[jeffwarne]

I'm still trying to figure out why Eastern Americans schlep to Bandon with the hundreds of courses available in the UK.

There's no land in SC to compare with Bandon.
There are plenty of good public access courses though, just not caliber of Bandon (but the same could be said of any state)

[John Kavanaugh]

I went on a trip to Myrtle Beach and had a great time.  I just personally can't stand the guido mentality of most of the tourist golfers that are down there that time of year.  

[Mike Sweeney]

 
  Why do Eastern Americans trod across the continent to play Bandon when they've got 380 courses in SC?  

You live/retire in South Carolina, you visit Bandon. Even Myrtle Beach is now a place where people live rather than vacation.

As an outsider, it appears that there was not enough population to build more than a handful of Old Dead Guy courses which are favored here. On the modern list of life, there is nothing wrong with SC except that they sell houses for more money that golf tee times on the ocean.

Courtesy of our friend Mike Whitaker:

http://www.scgolfpanel.org/Rankings/Rankings.htm

[John Kavanaugh]

You also gotta love the people of Bandon.  Of course this too could go away if things get too uppity.  When I called Bandon Crossings the kid who answered the phone didn't want me to hang up.  Try calling Kings North down in Myrtle and see what you get.

[Brent Hutto]

I'm still trying to figure out why Eastern Americans schlep to Bandon with the hundreds of courses available in the UK.

Even at exchange rates topping GBP2.00/US$1.00 that's why I end up going to the UK each year and Bandon remains a distant-future possibility. I can arrive in London in the same amount of time and for the same cost as I can arrive in Bandon, OR (originating in Charlotte, NC). Not the mention the non inconsequential fact that on arrival I'll have an entire day to play golf if I like rather than arriving at dinner time.

[jeffwarne]

Brent,
 Even with the exchange rate and recent discovery in the UK and Ireland of good old American capitalism(i.e. gouging), it's still pretty good value if you avoid the asshole traps and stick to B&B's.
It used to be shockingly cheap.

Like you, I do hope to get to Bandon, but there are SO many courses in the UK I've yet to play that I want to play.
So we'll have to settle for the UK and Ireland (and South Carolina) for now....and that crappy stuff here in my area

[James Bennett]

Perhaps it is the climate.  Where in the world do the South Carolina type climates have the better golf courses than the Bandon type climates.  Apparently not in the USA.  Definitely not in Australia (although Newcastle shows it can be done).  Perhaps climates ideal for growing grass/trees/shrubs are just not suited to growing golf turf.  

James B

[Brent Hutto]

James is indirectly pointing out a major reason that I travel to play golf. Nowhere in South Carolina (or for that matter within a several-hour drive of South Carolina) does there occur a climate allowing cool-weather grasses and sandy, well-drained turf. I'd cross an ocean to play on fescue, poa and bent grass growing tight, lean and fast on linksy soil...even if the course were laid out like the boringest condo-lined abomination at Myrtle Beach.

[Ed Oden]

SC resorts are almost all family beach destinations.  Golf is only an ancillary amenity these resorts offer just so they don't exclude the travelling golfer.  Most SC resorts can do just fine with a typical resort course.  On the other hand, there is no reason to go to Bandon if you are not playing golf.  So Bandon would fail if the courses were not first class.  I'm not sure there is a demand for a top notch golf only resort in SC.   The demand for great golf in SC is centered largely on the retirement/second home private club side, where there are some terrific options.

[John Shimp]

Most of the best courses are private.  Most of the nice resort land for golf is private.  There are plenty of good courses in SC for the size of the state but only 2 really good ones are public that i can think of (ocean and harbor town) and they are $300+ per rd.  You could say the same thing about California with a few odd exceptions like Rustic Canyon.  

[Bart Bradley]

I don't think any single resort in SC had a visionary leader who set out to make a "world golf destination".  There are nice courses and nice resorts..but places like Bandon and Kohler are designed and marketed from the beginning to draw a world-wide audience.  Myrtle Beach is/was designed and marketed as a family destination or as an afordable guys golf getaway.  I am sure with the right property, a visionary leader, and the right collection of courses a South Carolina golf resort COULD become a world golf destination.  It just hasn't happened so far...and probably won't for the reasons in Ed's post.  It is currently an entirely different niche in the marketplace.

Bart

[Tim Gavrich]

To paraphrase the great George Carlin:

"I never [dated] a '10,' but one night, I [dated] five '2s'!"

Golfers who journey to Bandon are content with three superlative-quality golf courses, not much else, and are willing to pay a lot.  Golfers who journey to South Carolina (specifically, the Grand Strand) are looking for a high number of average to above-average (e.g. Caledonia, Heritage, The Dunes) courses, plus a variety of restaurants, plus shopping (perhaps), plus nightlife (perhaps), plus lower costs on both golf and lodging.  Two completely different models, two completely different (though sometimes overlapping) target audiences.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Most of the best courses are private.  

John,
  You hit the nail on the head! Only 6 of the Top 25 courses in the state are public, the rest are Private or High End Resort. (Kiawah, Harbour Town, May River). In my opinion, there is a misinterpretation of Hilton Head Island golf, in particular. Unless one has access to the Private courses, (Long Cove, Colleton River, Belfair, Berkeley Hall, Secession, Checheesse Creek and even Haig Point) it’s really not a great destination for a week long vacation, especially an affordable one. The same thing rings true for Charleston. The best courses, with the best conditioning, from the known designers are off limits to most. (Yeaman’s Hall, CC of Charleston, Briar’s Creek, The River Course, Cassique and Daniels Island,)
  If I was planning a trip and wanted a little money in my pocket afterwards, I’d go to Myrtle Beach. There are numerous of deals, most courses are in good shape with bentgrass greens.

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Colonial CC
Ft. Worth, TX

[J_ Crisham]

I went on a trip to Myrtle Beach and had a great time.  I just personally can't stand the guido mentality of most of the tourist golfers that are down there that time of year.  

John can you expand on the "guido" mentality. The description I have heard is when one bends over to pluck a ball from the hole their tool belt can get in the way.

[Mike_Young]

Slag,
Have you ever played in SC.  I live in the South, love the South but golf in the South is not the same as golf on cool season grasses.....and MB just doesn't cut it for me.....I think if you hung out there for a week you would answer your own question here

[Adam Russell]

Two Athenians in a row-automatic I agree Mike I've been going to MB since knee-high; architecturally its just okay-mid-range tourist pocketbooks paired with ordinary budgets makes for bent grass golf courses that look bad in june-august, which is when most people visit. People I've taken there have been turned off by that more than anything.

[Ian Larson]

Im from State College, Pa. and opted to go to turf school in Myrtle Beach rather than Penn State. The year round weather and options of courses to work at gave me alot more work experience than staying up north delivering pizza to make a buck. I worked at Wild Wing Plantation and did the construction at Barefoot Landing.  So from that aspect it was great.
However Myrtle Beach is the Redneck Riviera and I always referred to it as the "Wal-Mart" of golf. Doaks course at The Legends, True Blue, Caledonia, Wild Dunes, Yeamans Hall, Kiawah and Harbortown are my favorites.

[Norbert P]

Slag,
Have you ever played in SC.  . . .  I think if you hung out there for a week you would answer your own question here

No, I haven't. Thanks to all for the many valid points in here that do diminish the SC golf reputation. Some very funny stuff too.   (Redneck Riviera)  "Bond, Jimmy Bond. And I like my beer shaken, not stirred."

I originally titled the thread "SC vs. Scotland" but it was too lopsided a battle (like Giants vs Pats ? - we'll see).  Especially, to get some reasons why the spinoff didn't create more timeless and respected designs.

Why did they stray so far away from golf's origins? $$$ speculation? Is it too late for SC to see a shift into the old ideals of the game? Are there walking only courses?

[Mike Hendren]

Is it simply a matter of highest and best use?  Much of coastal Carolina (at least the part that isn't marsh) is developed with housing given its promiximity to relatively large population centers.  

Today's dueling banjo player is more likely living in Oregon.

[John Kavanaugh]

Ay least in South Carolina they all don't wear the same stupid shirt.  The place does beat Hawaii.

[Norbert P]

Today's dueling banjo player is more likely living in Oregon.

"Son, yer afixin' to git yer face smoothed out."
Festus from Gunsmoke

I was driving back from the Pacific coast this Summer when we came into a town, my friend, who's from Texas, said "Look! A Walmart. We're getting back into civilization." I of course laughed thinking it was a joke - and a good one. He didn't understand the irony, apparently.

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