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Jason Connor

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Best 9 with 3+ par 3s.
« on: January 21, 2008, 09:05:41 PM »
A week or so ago a thread was posted asking What is the right number of par 3s.

Most of us would believe the land answers that question on a course-by-course basis.

So my question, what is the best set of 3 or more par 3s on a single 9 (championship length courses only).

Can a course top the back nine at Pacific Dunes that starts out 208, 148 and gives you two more fantastic par 3s on the way home?


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Jeff Doerr

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Re:Best 9 with 3+ par 3s.
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2008, 09:11:43 PM »
Pasatiempo's front 9 is pretty good! Although, I'd stay with PD as the best set.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2008, 09:12:48 PM by Jeff Doerr »
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Tom_Doak

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Re:Best 9 with 3+ par 3s.
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2008, 09:14:46 PM »
The one that comes to mind for me is the front nine at Rye, England.

If I had to score the holes at Pacific Dunes from 1-10 -- which I am NOT going to do in a public forum -- I suspect the front nine would come out at least as good as the back nine.  I don't think the four par-3's are a weakness, there are just a bunch of exceptional par-4's on the front nine, and I've always been partial to par-4's.
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John Moore II

Re:Best 9 with 3+ par 3s.
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2008, 09:19:48 PM »
Quote from: Jason Connor on January 21, 2008, 09:05:41 PM

So my question, what is the best set of 3 or more par 3s on a single 9 (championship length courses only).

Well, I'll leave the real fighting about what classifies as a Championship length course to someone else, as I am sure someone will take major issue to that.
--But I will say that the best 9 holes I have played with 3 par 3's is the Front 9 at Southern Pines Golf Club. They are quite an excellent set of holes and the rest of the 9 works great as well.
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Tim Bert

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Re:Best 9 with 3+ par 3s.
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2008, 09:21:57 PM »
I like the front nine at Banff Springs, though I too would opt for the back nine at Pacific Dunes.

I'd agree that the front nine at Pacific Dunes is as strong as the back nine, but unless I'm misinterpreting the question I don't think that takes the back nine out of consideration here.
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Tim Bert

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Re:Best 9 with 3+ par 3s.
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2008, 09:22:42 PM »
Quote from: Tom_Doak on January 21, 2008, 09:14:46 PM
The one that comes to mind for me is the front nine at Rye, England.

If I had to score the holes at Pacific Dunes from 1-10 -- which I am NOT going to do in a public forum -- I suspect the front nine would come out at least as good as the back nine.  I don't think the four par-3's are a weakness, there are just a bunch of exceptional par-4's on the front nine, and I've always been partial to par-4's.

Does that mean you are going to do so in your book?
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Bill Gayne

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Re:Best 9 with 3+ par 3s.
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2008, 09:26:50 PM »
The back nine at Ballybunion is as good as it gets with a trio of par threes on the back nine. The mix of holes is interesting 4-4-3-5-3-3-5-4-4.
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Phil McDade

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Re:Best 9 with 3+ par 3s.
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2008, 09:29:46 PM »
Three that come to mind are Royal Lytham (front nine), Ballybunion Old (back nine) and the "Sacred Nine" -- Royal Worlington and Newmarket.

Sweden's Falsterbo, highlighted not that long ago in a GCA thread, also has three par 3s on its front nine.
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J_ Crisham

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Re:Best 9 with 3+ par 3s.
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2008, 09:29:50 PM »
Back nine at  Beverly does well with 3 par 3's .Probably all Ross could do with the property restrictions.
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John Moore II

Re:Best 9 with 3+ par 3s.
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2008, 10:31:34 PM »
Jason--since no one has taken this up, I will do it now. What exactly classifies as a Championship course? There has been a bit of discussion here lately about why many championship courses are not really championship. Why do we have to limit ourselves to so-called Championship courses? And in all reality, based on many of the definitions I've heard, and given on here, Pacific Dunes would most likely not be classified as Championship. (No offense intended to Tom Doak) But again, why must we limit ourselves to courses that some may or may not consider "Championship?"
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JESII

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Re:Best 9 with 3+ par 3s.
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2008, 11:14:24 PM »
JM,

I'm guessing Jason intended "Championship" to mean non-executive or par 3 courses that are predominantly par 3's...in that light, PD would qualify (after all, he used it himself).


Back nine at The Cascades has to be up there...great nine holes.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2008, 11:16:05 PM by JES II »
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Art Roselle

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Re:Best 9 with 3+ par 3s.
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2008, 11:23:08 PM »
I am not going to compare it to PD or Ballybunion, but the back nine at Louisville Country Club (Walter Travis, 1924) has a very interesting card with three par 3s and two finishing par 5s: 4-3-4-4-4-3-3-5-5.  I know the purists out there claim that "par" shouldn't matter, but there is something very pleasant in knowing, almost to the end of the round, that you still have two (reachable) par 5s to go.  Maybe there you can save the mess you have made on the first 16.
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Andy Troeger

Re:Best 9 with 3+ par 3s.
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2008, 11:31:35 PM »
Front nine at Kingsley Club, both nines at Forest Highlands Canyon, front nine at Lakota Canyon Ranch, and the front at MPCC Shore are all good ones. Probably more that I am not thinking of.
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Brian Joines

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Re:Best 9 with 3+ par 3s.
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2008, 12:14:31 AM »
The front nine at Lost Dunes comes to mind.
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Sean_A

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Re:Best 9 with 3+ par 3s.
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2008, 03:13:58 AM »
Championship length?  

Being a proper homer I will have to throw Pennard's back 9 into the discussion.  You certainly will not find three more varied par 3s on a 9 hole stretch with such wild land.  The remainder of the back 9 is three par 5s and 3 par 4s.  The 9 holes is totally unpredictable in how it unfolds.  

I am surprised nobody has mentioned Swinley's back 9.  It is true that the par 3s along with #12 are the highlights of the side with none of the other holes really pushing the envelope.  However, the other holes are not without interest, are varied and do present a challenge in a wonderful setting.  I always thought that #15 may be a bit under-valued by many.  Its much better than the front 9 par 5.  Its still reachable, but one has to hit two crackers to pull it off.

How can this board let the back 9 of Addington slide by?  When one of the par 3s is often mentioned as one of the all time greats and with two all-world supporting holes such as #s 12 & 16 there is no excuse for its omission.  

Ciao
« Last Edit: January 22, 2008, 03:24:44 AM by Sean Arble »
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Jon Earl

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Re:Best 9 with 3+ par 3s.
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2008, 04:42:52 AM »
Quote from: Sean Arble on January 22, 2008, 03:13:58 AM

How can this board let the back 9 of Addington slide by?  When one of the par 3s is often mentioned as one of the all time greats and with two all-world supporting holes such as #s 12 & 16 there is no excuse for its omission.  

Ciao

Sean

You beat me to it. The variety of the par 3s on the back 9 is outstanding - 135, 230 and 190 yards respectively.
Of course, the 3 on the front 9 aren't too shabby either. Indeed, the 7th may be my favourite par 3 on the course.  It's a wonderful looking hole and offers a slight breather prior to the challenges to come.
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mike_malone

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Re:Best 9 with 3+ par 3s.
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2008, 10:15:48 AM »
 I certainly agree with Ballybunion. But, Rolling Green has 3 on the back nine;two over 200 and one short one.
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Jason Connor

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Re:Best 9 with 3+ par 3s.
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2008, 10:40:16 AM »
Quote from: Johnny M on January 21, 2008, 10:31:34 PM
Jason--since no one has taken this up, I will do it now. What exactly classifies as a Championship course?

I just meant "No Par 3 courses"

You're are welcome to include your local 6100 yard par 69 if you like.

« Last Edit: January 22, 2008, 10:41:19 AM by Jason Connor »
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wsmorrison

Re:Best 9 with 3+ par 3s.
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2008, 10:47:06 AM »
Here are the three back 9 par 3s at Rolling Green.  The photos and text are from the My Home Course piece I wrote in 2002.  I am no longer a member.


Hole 10 (257 yards)
This slightly uphill shot is quite demanding. Four bunkers guard the left side of the hole from about 60 yards short of the hole to the front portion of the green. From the middle of the members’ tee the hole plays 214 yards and requires a long iron aimed at the right bunker. The landing area short of the bunker will kick the ball left and onto the green. From the championship tee, most players need all the distance they can manage. The green is sloped back to front and right to left. There is a dramatic fall off at the rear of the green.



Hole 14 (225 yards?)
This is one of the toughest par 3s on the course. Although a bit shorter than the 10th hole, the hazards are staring you in the face. The green is actually 10 feet above the tee box and adds to the playing yardage. A shot missed on the right faces either a difficult bunker shot in either of the two deep and steeply faced bunkers. Miss the bunkers on the right and the ball caroms far away into a valley. The green is large and difficult to putt considering the slope and internal contours. The best miss is short and left.




Hole 16  (~175 yards)
The green is relatively flat and will hold most tee shots. If the pin is on the right side, a deep bunker comes into play and the all-carry shot is usually a bit longer than one thinks. The hole is beautiful to look at and one of the easier holes relative to par. A new back tee on a natural rise behind the championship tee will add about 25 yards to this hole so that it plays with a different club than the 3rd hole. The 3rd hole, though longer, plays downhill and therefore with the same club as the 16th.

A number of trees have been taken out behind the green and on the right near the stream.

« Last Edit: January 22, 2008, 02:29:12 PM by Wayne Morrison »
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Jay Cox

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Re:Best 9 with 3+ par 3s.
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2008, 01:38:25 PM »
Wayne, I think your first photo and description are of 10, not 9.  And if they were of 9, then we might have to have a talk about the meaning of "front nine" and "back nine."   ;D
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JohnV

Re:Best 9 with 3+ par 3s.
« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2008, 01:44:53 PM »
Both courses at Pumpkin Ridge have 3 par 3s on the back nine. They are a good mix of lengths at both courses.

Witch Hollow: #10 - 210, #12 - 145, #15 - 175
Ghost Creek: #11 - 180, #14 - 230, #16 - 132

I'm probably off a few yards on a couple of those, but close enough.

My favorites in this list are WH #12, WH #10, and GC #11.
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Tyler Kearns

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Re:Best 9 with 3+ par 3s.
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2008, 02:00:09 PM »
Pine Ridge (back nine 10, 14, 16) ~ Donald Ross

Perhaps a little more variety in terms of yardage would help, however, the tenth plays 208 yards downhill to a green that slants right to left, while the fourteenth plays 184 yards, again downhill to a punchbowl green surrounded by five bunkers. Finally, the sixteenth plays 174 yards to a 'Biarritz' green with three flanking greenside bunkers.

If we could add the ninth, an absolute brute at 231 yards, straight uphill to a upside-down saucer green (not an original Ross!) for sheer masochistic pleasure we'd have a great collection of four one-shotters in a ten hole stretch.

TK
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wsmorrison

Re:Best 9 with 3+ par 3s.
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2008, 02:30:19 PM »
Jay,

Thanks for the correction.  It is a wonderful golf course with an outstanding collection of par 3s, a commonality in all Flynn courses.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2008, 02:31:31 PM by Wayne Morrison »
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Gerry B

Re:Best 9 with 3+ par 3s.
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2008, 10:47:00 PM »
front nine at st louis cc - has 3 great ones - biarritz/ eden / short

back 9 at atlantic city - the little short 12th / the 200 yd 15th and the wonderful 165 yd 17th with a semi blind green ala 8 at maidstone

the 3 one shotters on the backside at Bel Air are really good as well.
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Bill_McBride

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Re:Best 9 with 3+ par 3s.
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2008, 11:04:24 PM »
Quote from: Tom_Doak on January 21, 2008, 09:14:46 PM
The one that comes to mind for me is the front nine at Rye, England.

If I had to score the holes at Pacific Dunes from 1-10 -- which I am NOT going to do in a public forum -- I suspect the front nine would come out at least as good as the back nine.  I don't think the four par-3's are a weakness, there are just a bunch of exceptional par-4's on the front nine, and I've always been partial to par-4's.

That kind of makes me wonder if you ever worked on a routing that might have distributed 1, 2, 4, 6, 7, 8 and 9 more evenly through the 18 holes.

Not saying I don't like and enjoy the routing as it wound up, just wondering.  ???
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