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John Kavanaugh

Diva Architecture
« on: January 11, 2008, 04:14:46 PM »
How much direction do you feel you can give an architect without compromising his art?  I think it is safe to ask for 18 holes.  Is that it?  Would let's say your love of short par 4's be too much to mention?  Where would specifications begin and end?

How much does keeping the architect on your side matter?  When does an owner get in the way and hurt the project from even his own perspective?
« Last Edit: January 11, 2008, 04:17:51 PM by John Kavanaugh »
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JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Diva Architecture
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2008, 04:19:55 PM »
What percentage of owners hire an architect for "THE ART"?

Do you think it is 10%?
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John Kavanaugh

Re:Diva Architecture
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2008, 04:22:13 PM »
I personally think owners hire architects to get what they want as they hire engineers to get what they need.  I'm just getting concerned that if you don't keep your architect happy you get less than the best design possible.   Maybe this is why Raynor worked so well, it didn't matter how he felt cause you were getting the same holes no matter what.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2008, 04:23:21 PM by John Kavanaugh »
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Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Diva Architecture
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2008, 04:22:44 PM »
Has anyone here ever had a custom home built?  Could there be any analogy?  

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John Kavanaugh

Re:Diva Architecture
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2008, 04:29:54 PM »
Quote from: Mark_Fine on January 11, 2008, 04:22:44 PM
Has anyone here ever had a custom home built?  Could there be any analogy?  



Even in building something as artless as a road you can tell the difference in quality when a contractor loses faith in the project.  As soon as I smell someones heart is not in it I try to find an alternate source.
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Bart Bradley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Diva Architecture
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2008, 04:35:11 PM »
John:

I don't think telling the architect ahead of time what sort of style you like, what type of holes you like, etc (putting your PREFERENCES in words) compromises the art...It only compromises the art if the architect forces those preferences in an unsuitable manner.   I think it's up to the architect to tell you why or why not those features can be used on that project.  MANDATING specifics, however, limits the art.

Bart
« Last Edit: January 11, 2008, 09:55:07 PM by Bart Bradley »
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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:Diva Architecture
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2008, 09:39:58 PM »
John:

I was talking to Dick Youngscap about this very subject about a month ago.  As an architect by trade, and now a golf developer, he's seen both sides of the question.

He was very clear about saying that he thought many clients meddled in the process too much.  He thought it was entirely appropriate that the client should state IN ADVANCE what they wanted and why, but that once the work got underway, architecture has a flow of its own and if a client interrupts the flow it is damned near impossible for the architect to get it back.  So, he stayed out of the way during the construction of Sand Hills [with one exception that I can remember], and the results were pretty convincing.
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Philippe Binette

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Diva Architecture
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2008, 10:40:29 PM »
I think an owner can say to an architect what he want or doesn't want on his golf course, as Tom mentionned, preferrably before the plans are made and construction starts.

It is then the architect's role to figure out a way to include those demands if they are reasonable or convinced the owner (good luck) to adopt an alternative of an idea.

As in the other thread, If a guy wants ablsolutely 7000 yards, you might be able to figure it out if you know that before you start the routing...
it'll be harder once your routing is on site at 6800 yards.

once the construction is started, most people (no matter how good a golfer they are) can't envision what the architect is seeing... better let him go, (but stay in control of the finances)
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David Schofield

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Diva Architecture
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2008, 02:33:29 AM »
Quote from: John Kavanaugh on January 11, 2008, 04:29:54 PM
Even in building something as artless as a road...

You haven't seen much of Rick Harrison's work, have you?
« Last Edit: January 12, 2008, 02:34:04 AM by David Schofield »
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John Kavanaugh

Re:Diva Architecture
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2008, 07:33:22 AM »
Quote from: David Schofield on January 12, 2008, 02:33:29 AM
Quote from: John Kavanaugh on January 11, 2008, 04:29:54 PM
Even in building something as artless as a road...

You haven't seen much of Rick Harrison's work, have you?

I googled the guy and found nothing.  Who is he?
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David Schofield

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Diva Architecture
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2008, 10:01:01 AM »
John,

Sorry for being cryptic in my previous post.

http://www.rhsdplanning.com/
or
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coving_(urban_planning)

* Note: I have no ties to this fellow whatsoever, I just admire his work.
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Carl Rogers

Re:Diva Architecture
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2008, 11:08:41 AM »
Not being a golf course architect, but being a building architect, I can say is that if you can't or won't be allowed to work proactively all you are doing is collecting a paycheck.

You might as well spend your time playing golf.
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