hello to the group

[CJ Carder]

Good evening everyone!  My name is CJ and I was graciously allowed to join the group a few days ago and finally have had some time to type up my first post.

As I said, my name is CJ.  I currently live in Williamsburg, VA where I work as a financial advisor and play as much golf as possible.  Most of my golf is played at the Golden Horseshoe Golf Club (I know several of you are familiar with it) though I do like to travel around and play as many new courses as I possibly can.  Just this summer, I had the opportunity to spend almost 2 weeks travelling around Scotland and also have lunch with Mr. David Tepper at Royal Dornoch.

I've been reading the site for about 2 years now and have very much enjoyed the discussions of top courses that I otherwise would not have the chance to see.  Of particular interest to me is the debate of classic architecture v. the newer courses being built today.  I'm also a huge fan of the wonderful photography posted on the site and will do my best to offer my own contributions in that area as a poster here.

Finally, thank you for welcoming me to such a fantastic discussion group and I look forward to discussing, getting to know, and maybe even playing a round or two with many of you in the future.

As my first two offerings to the group, I give you three photos (1 each of my 3 favorite courses that I have played):

#1 - par 4 3rd at Muirfield


#2 - par 4 8th at Turnberry


#3 - par 3 7th at the Golden Horseshoe Gold Course

[John Kavanaugh]

CJ,

The call me JB, but I was wondering..Is the temp green on the par 3 7th more fun than the actual?

[Bob Jenkins]

CJ,

Welcome! Those are great photos and I look forward to seeing more of them in the future.

Thanks

[CJ Carder]

Posted by: John Kavanaugh       Posted on: Today at 07:38:13pm
CJ,

The call me JB, but I was wondering..Is the temp green on the par 3 7th more fun than the actual?

Nice to meet you JB.

Are you talking about the little circle at the bottom of the hill?  That's actually a little tiny bit of fairway that they put in because a lot of the older members use as a layup.  The hole plays about 165 from the whites, 186 from the blues, and 204 from the gold tees.  I've heard it described as one of the hardest par 3's in Virginia because you literally have nowhere to miss but short.  As such, similar to what I've heard about #2 at Dornoch, some members prefer to layup short, pitch up and take their chances - they'd rather take a 4 than risk 5+.  The drop area, which is barely visible in the bottom right of the picture next to the cart path, is a horrible drop area in my opinion because it forces you to hit a high trajectory shot straight up the hill.  Much easier to purposefully miss short and at least have some reasonable view of what you're hitting to.

[Chip Gaskins]

fantastic pictures.  welcome.

chip-

[Bill Gayne]

CJ,

Welcome to the site. CJ may not remember but when I lived in the Williamsburg area, I was paired up with him in a couple of Golden Horseshoe member events. I would suggest that if you're in the vicinity of the Golden Horseshoe to look up CJ. He's a young guy with a solid game and a sincere interest in golf architecture. With some luck, you will get to play with both CJ and his Dad at the same time.

Bill

[Jeff Doerr]

CJ,

Welcome!

You'll have to connect with my friend Scott who is a poster here and lives in Virginia Beach. Maybe when I finally get out there we can schedule something for a number of the GCA folks in the area.

Cheers, Jeff

[RJ_Daley]

Hey CJ, if you have already been lurking for a couple years, and now just started posting, you have to realise that you are hopelessly hooked.  You better get one of those panic buttons at work that you just hit once and your screen jumps to some financial model projection chart or something when your boss walks in.  And if you are home posting, you'll need the official GCA.com pajamas and smoking jacket.

[mike_beene]

Great picture of Gullane Hill.Let those who think Muirfield mundane take a long look at that picture.

[ed_getka]

CJ,
  Welcome to the fray. Don't be afraid to express a point of view here, our bark is way worse than our bite.

[John Moore II]

Welcome CJ, you will discover that JB's response to you was similar to many of his posts, trying to be comedic. It works quite well once you get his brand of humor. The pictures are great. I hope you can continue your study of golf course architecture, perhaps you, along with myself can learn many things from the experienced people on this site.
John

[Jim Nugent]

Excellent pictures.  On the Golden Horseshoes par 3, what do you think about cutting the grass from the fairway layup area all the way to the green?   (i.e. so the fairway runs all the way to the green.)  Seems like it might give more short game choices/options, and also more ways to get at the green with your tee shot.  

[Joe Hancock]

CJ,
  Welcome to the fray. Don't be afraid to express a point of view here, our bark is way worse than our bite.

What he said.

Woof.

[John Moore II]

Jim-looking at the pictures, cutting the grass all the way short of the green would make it very hard for shots coming up a little short, they would roll down into the bottom area. I like the idea personally, but it would not make for speedy play.

[Bill Brightly]

Jim-looking at the pictures, cutting the grass all the way short of the green would make it very hard for shots coming up a little short, they would roll down into the bottom area. I like the idea personally, but it would not make for speedy play.

If I remember correctly, the shot is dead down hill. I dont think shaving the grass will have much effect. If it was an uphill shot, I think it would work.

 Welcome CJ! What do you think?

[CJ Carder]

Jim-looking at the pictures, cutting the grass all the way short of the green would make it very hard for shots coming up a little short, they would roll down into the bottom area. I like the idea personally, but it would not make for speedy play.

If I remember correctly, the shot is dead down hill. I dont think shaving the grass will have much effect. If it was an uphill shot, I think it would work.

 Welcome CJ! What do you think?

I agree.  The tee shot is more or less downhill (though it doesn't play like it) and if you find yourself on "JB's temporary green"   it's basically straight uphill.  You almost can't see the bottom of the flag from anywhere except on the green or in the left bunker.  Aesthetically it would work, but I think that's about as far as one could take it.

Thinking of other holes on the course, I'd love to see some runup areas and things like what Jim was talking about, but that's a whole other story with maintenance and budget.  

When the weather gets warmer and I can take some better pictures, I fully intend on adding a "My Course" writeup about the Gold Course.  Up until I went to Scotland, it was my favorite course of any that I'd ever played, and it's still in my top 5, but the more I see of other courses, the more I think it's because it's my home course and I can't be impartial.  

[Dean Paolucci]

Welcome and enjoy!

[CJ Carder]

Great picture of Gullane Hill.Let those who think Muirfield mundane take a long look at that picture.

Mike - here's another picture for you.  I agree, Muirfield was hands down, the coolest golfing experience I've had to date.  I honestly think I'd be happy if I could play that course with that atmosphere every day for the rest of my life.

[Jim Nugent]

I understand what you guys are saying about mowing the grass on the tee shot of that par 3.  But what about the second shot, for people who lay up?  Would cutting the rough to fairway give more short-game options?  Or not?  

[Nick Cauley]

CJ,

good pictures, look forward to hearing from you in the future.

[CJ Carder]

I understand what you guys are saying about mowing the grass on the tee shot of that par 3.  But what about the second shot, for people who lay up?  Would cutting the rough to fairway give more short-game options?  Or not?  

I'm not trying to take the easy way out, but I think there's a lot of characteristics that would not allow some other short game options (i.e. bump & run, long putt, etc).  For example, the slope in front is pretty darn steep and it would be awfully challenging to get the right weight on the putt to get it anywhere near the hole.  You also would likely have to re-contour the front of the green to allow for more shots along the ground.  Plus, the severe slope combined with the pitch of the green makes ground-oriented shots quite awkward (though I also see the devil's advocate point of view that says "well, that's what you get for laying up on a par 3").  But, bottom-line, I don't think the turf would allow for it.  Our turf, all the way around the course, is quite soft and any bump & run style shot or anything like that would have to be hit extra hard to keep its momentum going up the hill.  Then, you run the risk of missing your target for the bump part and flying it clear over the green, which I think you can see is no picnic.  

One other small point is that this hole, arguably the hardest par 3  on the course, comes directly after the shortest par 5.  It's not uncommon to get a decent backup in that area.  I don't know that this has a big impact on Jim's suggestions, but I thought I'd mention it.  

[Scott Weersing]

Welcome CJ!!

There are some great courses to study here in Virginia. I really love Strantz's, Royal New Kent


We will have to get together to tour some of the new courses here in Virginia.

Have you been up to King Carter GC, 2006 best new, yet?

[Bill_McBride]

Great picture of Gullane Hill.Let those who think Muirfield mundane take a long look at that picture.

Mike - here's another picture for you.  I agree, Muirfield was hands down, the coolest golfing experience I've had to date.  I honestly think I'd be happy if I could play that course with that atmosphere every day for the rest of my life.

When I played there last March for the first time, Muirfield offered what I love most in golf:  a really great golf course with a lot of history, and an experience that matched that level.  With the mystique of the place, and the fourball match followed by the lunch and then the foursomes, it all made for a memorable experience.   Doing "the day" really enhanced my enjoyment of the golf course on its own.

[Andrew Mitchell]

Great picture of Gullane Hill.Let those who think Muirfield mundane take a long look at that picture.

Mike - here's another picture for you.  I agree, Muirfield was hands down, the coolest golfing experience I've had to date.  I honestly think I'd be happy if I could play that course with that atmosphere every day for the rest of my life.

When I played there last March for the first time, Muirfield offered what I love most in golf:  a really great golf course with a lot of history, and an experience that matched that level.  With the mystique of the place, and the fourball match followed by the lunch and then the foursomes, it all made for a memorable experience.   Doing "the day" really enhanced my enjoyment of the golf course on its own.

CJ
Welcome

Bill
Agreed.  That day at Muirfield was my favourite golfing experience of 2007.

[John Kavanaugh]

CJ,

Could you tell us some specifics and post more pictures of Golden Horseshoe?