[wsmorrison]

In terms of a variety of angles of play, not distance differentials.  Are there examples (especially of par 3s) where an individual class of golfers can tee off from multiple tees resulting in different angles of play or different shaped shots that need to be hit?

[Sean_A]

In terms of a variety of angles of play, not distance differentials.  Are there examples (especially of par 3s) where an individual class of golfers can tee off from multiple tees resulting in different angles of play or different shaped shots that need to be hit?

The most varied par 3 I know of is Tobacco Road's 6th.  I have no idea why this concept isn't used far more often - especially where tough terrain is encountered.

Ciao

[wsmorrison]

Sean,

I was thinking of this one as well.  There's a fair amount of things I don't like about TR, but I find the tee on the 6th to be very interesting.  I don't understand why, when there are interesting features that there isn't more horizontal variability that encourages different shot shapes or strategies, even on par 4s and 5s.  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Wayno,

# 17 at Boca Rio is a perfect example.

Visit via Ran's review and Google Earth.

Better yet, visit it this winter in person.

[wsmorrison]

Pat,

Here is a photo from Ran's write-up.



Ran doesn't mention tee(s) that offer a variety of playing angles and shot demands.  I hope I can take you up on your kind offer to visit while you're down there.  There's a certain course in north Miami that I hope to revisit as well.  Just in case I don't (and by the way, you still owe me a visit) please explain the variety of tee positions and their impact on shot shaping or how different angles of approach affect play.

[Jason Connor]

The 8th at Donald Ross's Manakiki outside Cleveland is a fine example.



From the "whites" it's a straight away par 4.  This is the large tee (nearly as large as the green) in the lower right with the cart path going out around it.  From this tee box, the water is out of play and the bunkers on the right will only catch a slice/push.  You can pick any line straight away and swing away.

From the "blues" it's a much more challenging hole (and made harder because they need to clear some trees).  This is the small tee, partially obscured by trees, in the bottom middle, just above the sand trap you see by the previous green.

Now choice of line is key.   Too far left and the trees catch you.  Too far right and any decent drive goes through the fairway and you're blocked by the huge tree by the fairway traps or you're in the fairway traps.

It would be a better hole once they clear some trees on the left. As it is, you've got to hit a nice draw to really get in key position.

But this is an example of an easy straight away par 4 from the member tees.  But a tough par 4 requiring committing to a line and shaping your shot, or else being penalized from the back tees.

[Bill Satterfield]

The par three 16th at the Redstone Tournament course has 12 tee boxes as I recall.  Three of them line up on the left side of the trees and play straight into the hole with short grass cut in front and the bunkers playing short left and the entire right side of the green.

The other 9 boxes are found on the right side of some trees and are spread out to where the green-length deep bunkers could be protecting nearly the entire front of the green (based on your angle of play) or back to the left where a cut shot is required to thread the bunkers and hit the green.

[Eric Olsen]

The par 3 third hole at Royal New Kent has an extremely wide variety of tee angles and distances to a green that also presents a tremendous variety of looks.  

[Bob_Huntley]

Wayne,

I think one could say that Mike Strantz did it on the 7th, 9th and 11th of the Shore Course.

Bob

[Michael Blake]

bandon dunes #2


http://www.bandondunesgolf.com/bandon_hole2.cfm

[Scott Szabo]

I know you mentioned par threes specifically, but #5 at Sand Hills offers what you are speaking of.  The tee is located to above and to the left of the green on #4 and creates more of a diagonal tee shot over a bunker while the alternate tee is more of a straightaway hole.  I believe Ran has comments on this in his writeup of Sand Hills.

Ballyneal #1 is also another that incorporates something similar to Sand Hills #5 without increasing the length of the hole by a large degree.

[Eric Olsen]

http://www.traditionalclubs.com/view.asp?id=356&page=9231

If you click on the link here and look at the 3rd hole, you see the tremendous diversity of number 3 at RNK.  

[Andy Troeger]

The par 3 2nd at The Dunes Club (MI) has two sets of tees at a 90 degree angle from each other. It makes for playing two different holes essentially.

Less obviously at the Dunes, the 7th has two teeing grounds that impact the degree of the dogleg and the length of the hole. Its a relatively short par four to the same landing area from either tee but does make things a little more varied when playing the course twice.

[D_Malley]

Phila cricket
par 4 # 6 has two different tees on the either side of the fifth green, which require diff shaped shots.

also the par 3 #15 has two sets of tees at different angles.  i much prefer the one closer to the 14th green, although they never put the back tees down there.  they should extend that tee back further.

[JMorgan]

Quite a few holes from Black Mesa and Apache Stronghold

[Jerry Kluger]

Something related to this thread:  I had played a whole bunch of rounds at my friend's club where the primary tee box on a par 3 lines you up with the left side of the green.  One day, the teemarkers are on a teebox that I had never noticed before which had you playing from an angle where you were right of the green.  I get on the tee and I finally realized that the hole had many features of a redan but they just never came into play from the primary teebox - I guess I'm just not that bright.

[Peter_Herreid]

I thought that the multiple angles presented by the different tees on #3 at Shinnecock were pretty neat!  
Devilish angles and shot-shape possibilities to that fairway from the opposite sides of #2 green.

[Mike Mosely]

I forget whether it's 3 or 6 but one of the early par-3s at Tobacco Road does that...one set of tees tests distance control, the other accuracy, based on the angle at which they are set to the green.

[Kyle Harris]

In terms of a variety of angles of play, not distance differentials.  Are there examples (especially of par 3s) where an individual class of golfers can tee off from multiple tees resulting in different angles of play or different shaped shots that need to be hit?

Wayne,

Forget your favotire hole at Talamore?

[Kalen Braley]

I will claim, that even though it might be gimmicaky, but Desmonds 360 degree par 3 hole on his course in Dubai.  How can it get much more diverse than that and create virtually a new hole every time one plays it.

[ward peyronnin]

Iwas just ready to post another thread related to this but i will resist the temptation to succumb to pride of authorship and threadjacking and post here.

Our friend Jaka b and i played Victoria National one cold day recently from the way forward tees. It was great fun; more short par 4's that were fun rather than taxing and very different shot angles for teeballs and shot values. It was a great way to enjoy oneself when just showing up was already a bit of work; change up from the accustomed playing feel look of the course etc.

What i was going to pose reflected a difference in philosophy sometime detected between those that accept Pete Dye's multiple tee design premise and those who favor a more classic approach of limited teeing options and what the option we had available to us that day added to the potential of the golf course.; inviting sharing specific experiences on courses and  the pros/possibilties offered of basically having 36 holes on an 18 hole footprint. So i hope this attracts your thoughts

Ward

[Pat Brockwell]

JMorgan you are right about Black Mesa. Par 3's #4, 8 & 15 as well as  par 4's  #1, 5, 14 (driveable) & 18 have lateral options from the tees that change things up nicely.  It is one of my favorite design devices.

[Pete Lavallee]

How many of these holes are actually better from the forward tee than they are from the back? Isn't every forward tee a concession to the strategy provided by the furthest back?

I'm thinking Pete Dye here, as the back tees invariably require an angled tee shot to the fairway; where the forward tees are just a straight version of the same hole. Is this type pandering good for golf; shouldn't the less skillled player occasionally have a tougher puzzle to tackle than the tiger?

[wsmorrison]

Kyle,

Nope, I didn't forget that one.  Others to consider:

Merion East 9th--there are two sets of tees on either side of the 8th green.  Given that the green is kidney shaped, this can lead to different shot shapes and shot demands.

Shinnecock Hills 3rd--the Flynn tee is on the left side of the 2nd green while the Macdonald tee was on the right side of the green.  Flynn moved the right tees slightly on the hole that is pretty close to the Macdonald hole with slightly different bunkering and a remodeled green.  The left tee is far superior to the right tee even though the overall angles of the hole were not altered.

Interestingly, the tees don't have to be too far apart to have significant differences in the type of shot to be played.  The 7th at Shinnecock Hills did not maintain the Flynn tee 7 steps to the left of the Macdonald tee (which remains in use).  The slightly different approach angle makes a large difference in the type of shot you have available to you.  A slight draw from the Flynn tee is into the side bolster and will typically hold the green.  A slight draw from the Macdonald tee leads to Trouble (with a capital T).

[Kyle Harris]

Wayne,

How does the 11th at Rolling Green stack up? I've never played the left tee, but I'd imagine it allows the golfer to really sling a draw down the hill moreso than the tee hard against the OB right.

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