[Kalen Braley]

I know dog-leg par 3's have been discussed here usually in a light spirited manner, but a local 9 hole course here in Utah has the most real example of a dog-leg par 3 I've ever seen.

Here is an aerial of the hole with the tee box noted.



The hole plays approx 195 from the back, 180 from the middle and 160 from the front of the tee box.  Notice the several trees in the direct line from the tee to green.  These trees are anywhere from 10-20 feet tall.  Additionally the hole plays slightly uphill and a bunker protects a good portion of the front of a smallish green. For better players its not much of a problem to hoist a iron over the trees, but then must still contend with the bunker.  For high cappers, women, children, its a difficult shot to go for the putting surface off the tee and the prudent play seems to lay out left to the fairway to avoid the trees as well as have a better angle to the green.  Hence a legit "dog-leg" par 3.  Thoughts?

[Jay Cox]

I am confused as to what would make a par 3 a dogleg.  

If this is a dogleg par 3, is the 16th at Cypress Point?  A good player can hit it straight at the pin; a weaker player has to play out to the left and then chip it on with his second.  

Does it matter that the straight line is blocked by relatively short trees instead of by ocean, or sand, or some other form of hazard?  It certainly would not on a par 4:  we would call the cape hole at Mid Ocean a dogleg just as much as the 3rd at Pebble Beach or any other trees-on-the-inside-corner-of-the-bend hole.

Is the distinguishing feature of a dogleg par 3 that there is a safe(r) line to the green, and that line involves aiming well wide of the pin?  If so, why is the concept controversial?  Wouldn't many holes of that form be good holes?

Or is the distinguishing feature that one cannot fire a straight shot at the pin -- as at Blackwolf Run?  If so, then Kalen's example doesn't qualify, I don't think.

[Phil McDade]

Kalen:

This course:

http://www.anstruthergolf.co.uk/

near St. Andrews, in the East Neuk village of Anstruther, has a very tough par 3, Rockies, that plays as something of a dogleg, and has some similarities to the one you've described. The course website has a little picture of it, but the article that is referenced on the website has a good description and some good pictures of it.

I'm of a mixed view on these sorts of holes -- I like them better when natural land forms create the semi-dogleg, as opposed to trees or bushes or even sandtraps.

[Tom_Doak]

Kalen:

Sure, that's a dogleg par 3 for most players.  (An odd one at that.)  So is 16 at Cypress Point, and the sixth hole at West Sussex GC, which is pictured on another thread here (220 yards around a small pond).

Seems legit to me to reward players from aiming away from the green if they know they can't make it.

[Andy Troeger]

There's a 235 yard par three in South Bend, IN (Studebaker GC) that might as well be a dogleg as one has to take it over similar trees to Kalen's example, except with a 3-wood or driver to a tiny green with steep back-to-front tilt. Good luck!

Oh yeah...uphill too!  

[Lloyd_Cole]

The second at Killermont (Glasgow Golf Club) as I remember it, is close to a dogleg. It plays slightly uphill at around 240 yards with trees, maybe 20 to 50 yards short of the green, blocking access to the left side of the green. They could only be carried, and the green held, by a Jack Nicklaus trajectory shot. On top of all that the ground falls away to the right, so a brave straight hit, just skirting the trees will most probably roll into the front right bunker. The ONLY play, to hit the green, for the mortal golfer, is a slow slung hook coming in under the upper branches. The lay up is smart for most.
Out of context, this hole could easily be labeled 'unfair', but the first is a straightaway drivable par 4.. so 3, 4, or 4, 3, however you like it is just fine to start with.
I particularly enjoy this type of juxtaposition within a round.

[Mark Pearce]

As anyone playing Anstruther on the Sunday before BUDA this June will discover, "Rockies" is a par 3 in name only.  240 yards into the prevailing wind with the North Sea tight by the left hand side and a hill blocking the right half of the small green from view.  The shot, if you're foolish enough to take it on, is a faded driver starting at the sea.  Great fun.

The Northumberland Golf Club has 22 holes, four of which (the "Winter Holes") come into play from October to March to take the main holes furthest from the club house out of play.  The third of these is a 220 yard par 3 which plays around (over, in these days of utility clubs) a stand of trees.  Even with a utility club the best shot starts at the right edge of the green and draws toward the middle, thus going over the lowest part of the trees.

[John Chilver-Stainer]

I like to describe such holes as a Par 3 / Bogey 4 - which precludes:-

1. a good shot, even a big fade or draw round or over a tree, can find the green surface for a Par
2. a bale-out area for the weaker player to then play a second shot to the green surface for a bogey.

Nothing “unfair” about that?

[Andrew Mitchell]

I've played the "Rockies" hole at Anstruther that Phil and Mark refer to a couple of times. Into a prevailing wind the hole is clearly a par 4 (unless you can get a chip close for a single putt).  The hole is a classic example of why par can be an irrelevence on occasions.

[Adrian_Stiff]

I think a dog leg 3, is a par 4. FULL STOP. If you look at a hole like 16 at CP, then you can hit the green plus there is an alternative easier bail out route. That to me is no dogleg.

[KBanks]

If memory serves, Mark O'Meara referred to Crooked Stick #13 as a dogleg par three the first time he played it. He directed his comment to Pete Dye. To my knowledge, Pete's reply, if any, wasn't recorded.

Crooked Stick 13 is a reverse redan of about 180 yards or so, with a small stream in front of the green. I think the green's severe pitch from high left to low right has been reduced since I was familiar with it. It's a fine hole in my opinion, but I'm biased as I aced it many years ago.

Ken

[Mike Hendren]

Kalen,

"Dog-leg Par 3" is merely Hillbilliese for "Redan."

Mike

[Kalen Braley]

Jay,

I certainly am aware of CPC #16 and thought about it alot. So before I made this post, I consulted Geoff S's book to refresh my understanding of what that hole really was intended to be in the design phase.

For all intentional purposes, it wasn't designed explicitly to be a par 3.  Even on the first routing MacK shows it as a par 4, with a par 3 "option".  And as construction started they didn't know what it would be until Marion hit the "shot heard round the Monterey Penisula" and so it was    Its interesting to note that when the course opened it was listed as a par 4, but Geoff speculates that the printed material had already been sent to the press and they couldn't get it changed in time.

Either way, CPC 16 does play as a dog leg par 3, but at least in my mind this was a bit different because it wasn't intentionally designed as such right from the outset.

As for the other dog leg par 3s that have been described in this thread, they appear more brutal than this one.  If anyone has any pics, feel free to post away, I'd love to see them.

Kalen

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