[David Stamm]

I played SP again over the weekend with Robert Ball and the Emperor (he's alive and well). The changes that were being discussed on the thread I had started over the summer have happened. The cross bunker on 4 has been reduced, the small middle bunker on 6 has been removed and the center bunker that fronts the green on 10 has been removed.  

Despite this, it's still one of the best pubs in So Cal IMHO.

[Lynn_Shackelford]

David you forgot to mention that much of the bunker fronting the 9th green was also filled in.  In front of the 17th green the ground was lowered 18 inches.  I am not sure who thought this was going to change anything, it hasn't.  I green needs a bit of leveling IMHO.
As for the par 5 4th, it is now just another par 5 on the first two shots.  Hit it straight down the middle.
As for the locals they still think the course is hard, but they will quietly admit the Gil Hanse greens have made them better putters.  Some will even quietly admit that putting on the Hanse greens is more fun than the old flat ones.
Soule is great, cheap, and not promoted, thus easy to get on anytime.

[Jeff_Mingay]

So, for the record, Gil Hanse was hired to renovate Soule Park recently; and, now the powers-that-be there are filling in his bunkers, etc.?

Just curious,

[David Stamm]

So, for the record, Gil Hanse was hired to renovate Soule Park recently; and, now the powers-that-be there are filling in his bunkers, etc.?

Just curious,

Jeff,

  The course is filled with ALOT of seniors. As the pro there told us, they pay the bills. I'm not sure they are playing from the correct tees. This not Gil's fault, it's just another example of people not geting it.

[R_Paulis]

Had a long conversation with a Soule Park Men's Clubber about the changes. He explained that the course was so difficult they were losing members to the newly renovated Olivas Links. The locals also did not like the increase in their handicaps.

It's a real shame for the renovations made the course a true gem particularly with the overpriced Ojai resort course down the street. Does the "dumbing down" of the track make it less desirable? I don't know, but it does make the Soule Mens Club less desirable to me.

[David Stamm]

Had a long conversation with a Soule Park Men's Clubber about the changes. He explained that the course was so difficult they were losing members to the newly renovated Olivas Links. The locals also did not like the increase in their handicaps.

It's a real shame for the renovations made the course a true gem particularly with the overpriced Ojai resort course down the street. Does the "dumbing down" of the track make it less desirable? I don't know, but it does make the Soule Mens Club less desirable to me.

That's exactly what the head pro had told us. It's amazing how people just want the course to just lay down for them. Of course their handicaps are going to go up, it takes time for a golfer to figure out the nuances of the course. I understand the money game and they have to appease the group paying the bills, but the changes make no sense at all. Removing the bunker on 6 it silly. The hole is 315 yds. And reducing the bunker on 4 was a crime, it was a work of art. It made that hole a great par 5. It's still good, but the bunker made it very strategic. The course is not that tough. I'm amazed that people would leave Soule for Olivas.

[Jon Spaulding]

Any idea as to the course & slope rating before & after the redux?

[R_Paulis]

Had a long conversation with a Soule Park Men's Clubber about the changes. He explained that the course was so difficult they were losing members to the newly renovated Olivas Links. The locals also did not like the increase in their handicaps.

It's a real shame for the renovations made the course a true gem particularly with the overpriced Ojai resort course down the street. Does the "dumbing down" of the track make it less desirable? I don't know, but it does make the Soule Mens Club less desirable to me.

That's exactly what the head pro had told us. It's amazing how people just want the course to just lay down for them. Of course their handicaps are going to go up, it takes time for a golfer to figure out the nuances of the course. I understand the money game and they have to appease the group paying the bills, but the changes make no sense at all. Removing the bunker on 6 it silly. The hole is 315 yds. And reducing the bunker on 4 was a crime, it was a work of art. It made that hole a great par 5. It's still good, but the bunker made it very strategic. The course is not that tough. I'm amazed that people would leave Soule for Olivas.

I had a special fondness for Soule for many years well before the renovation. It lacked character after many years of limited upkeep and was hard as a rock but I liked what was remaining of the Bell design and it was empty during the week. Ojai Valley Inn's deals for locals during their hotel remodel were tough to pass up. However, we always returned to Soule for a change of pace.

And how lucky were local golfers when Hanse renovated Soule? We got a flavor of Rustic Canyon with less crowds. And Soule became a better option than Ojai Valley for all the right reasons. I really do hope the lack of foresight and vision from a small group of players does not diminish Soule.

I don't want to dismiss Forrest Richardson's remodel of Olivas Links. It is an amazing transformation from a dead design to a course with visual appeal, style and challenge. I am a blessed "daily fee" golfer to have the options of Rustic, Olivas and Soule "Redux" all within an hours drive.

[Jed Peters]

Any idea as to the course & slope rating before & after the redux?

It was easy after the renovation. I HACKED there and shot 78 from the tips (it's short) and that's with many bad holes where I "lost it".

What stands out is just how FUN that course was to play--I really liked it.

And after my round I spoke to a men's clubber as well--he echo'ed the same things--that the course was basically too difficult, too wild, etc.

[David Stamm]

Any idea as to the course & slope rating before & after the redux?

Spaulds,

  Before the flood and Gil touching the course it was I thik 70.5 with a 120 slope from the tips. It has yet to be rerated since the redo in 2006. I suspect it's around 72 and 132.

[Joel_Stewart]

Did Gil do the work or did they do it in house without talking with him?   Someone, probably not the pro had to make the decision to fill in the bunkers.  Its exactly how courses change over the years at the whim of very stupid people, often to fit their own game.

[David Stamm]

Did Gil do the work or did they do it in house without talking with him?   Someone, probably not the pro had to make the decision to fill in the bunkers.  Its exactly how courses change over the years at the whim of very stupid people, often to fit their own game.

Joel, it is my understanding that Gil knew they were going to do it, but it was not done by him. BTW, believe it or not, the pro was involved in the in house changes. Agreed, ignorant people.  

[Bill_McBride]

David, re: area golf, what's going on at Sandpiper these days?

[David Stamm]

Bill,

   It was my understanding that Ty Warner in his infinite wisdom about golf courses   was going to hire RTJ, jr to completely gut the course and make it a "links" course . I believe I heard something from the guys in the pro shop saying that he wanted to make it the PB of the south and charge about $300+. Recently I've heard from some SB/Ventura residents that the idea has been put on hold because of some strong backlash to the idea. IMHO, there is nothing wrong with Sandpiper and this is a bad idea. I can understand some reworking ala Soule Park, but links style? This is not a knock on RTJ, jr at all, it's just the idea of a links style course there seems silly. The setting is very similar to Torrey Pines as you know. SP is already expensive and I think the backlash is probably due to the increased cost angle more than "preserving" the course. Let's face it, there are not alot of inexpensive courses to play in that area.

[Jon Spaulding]

Any idea as to the course & slope rating before & after the redux?

Spaulds,

  Before the flood and Gil touching the course it was I thik 70.5 with a 120 slope from the tips. It has yet to be rerated since the redo in 2006. I suspect it's around 72 and 132.

DS; a bit surprising that people would get so pissy to the point of changing things, when they're picking up a couple of shots on the backend with respect to handicap. Also surprising that the SCGA would be so lax in getting the raters out there.

Jed; on the flip side, if you want to play crappy, score low, and not have much fun...head to Encinitas Ranch.

[Bill_McBride]

Bill,

   It was my understanding that Ty Warner in his infinite wisdom about golf courses   was going to hire RTJ, jr to completely gut the course and make it a "links" course . I believe I heard something from the guys in the pro shop saying that he wanted to make it the PB of the south and charge about $300+. Recently I've heard from some SB/Ventura residents that the idea has been put on hold because of some strong backlash to the idea. IMHO, there is nothing wrong with Sandpiper and this is a bad idea. I can understand some reworking ala Soule Park, but links style? This is not a knock on RTJ, jr at all, it's just the idea of a links style course there seems silly. The setting is very similar to Torrey Pines as you know. SP is already expensive and I think the backlash is probably due to the increased cost angle more than "preserving" the course. Let's face it, there are not alot of inexpensive courses to play in that area.

I only played Sandpiper once and it was thirty years ago, but even in those days it seemed to me to be a missed opportunity.  There are so many mediocre holes on what should be some great headland terrain.

You're right about not a lot of good public, affordable golf in that area.  Santa Barbara Golf Club (used to be the SB Muni) is not worth a trip but is cheap, I've played a couple of hundred rounds there.  I'd rather play it than spend the money at either Sandpiper or Rancho San Marcos.

[David Stamm]

Bill,

   It was my understanding that Ty Warner in his infinite wisdom about golf courses   was going to hire RTJ, jr to completely gut the course and make it a "links" course . I believe I heard something from the guys in the pro shop saying that he wanted to make it the PB of the south and charge about $300+. Recently I've heard from some SB/Ventura residents that the idea has been put on hold because of some strong backlash to the idea. IMHO, there is nothing wrong with Sandpiper and this is a bad idea. I can understand some reworking ala Soule Park, but links style? This is not a knock on RTJ, jr at all, it's just the idea of a links style course there seems silly. The setting is very similar to Torrey Pines as you know. SP is already expensive and I think the backlash is probably due to the increased cost angle more than "preserving" the course. Let's face it, there are not alot of inexpensive courses to play in that area.

I only played Sandpiper once and it was thirty years ago, but even in those days it seemed to me to be a missed opportunity.  There are so many mediocre holes on what should be some great headland terrain.

 

Agreed that the course could've been alot better and it is some great terrain. I'm just saying that trying to put a "links" style course there is just asking for a mess that should probably never have been started, that's all. I would rather play SBGC as well, dollar for dollar. SP is way too much money.  

[David Stamm]

Some photos from Saturday....



The view of the 5th from the fw. The green resembles the 15th at Riviera.



..my shot from the fw bunker.



A couple of photos of the beautiful bunker work on 11...

[R_Paulis]

Bill,

   It was my understanding that Ty Warner in his infinite wisdom about golf courses   was going to hire RTJ, jr to completely gut the course and make it a "links" course . I believe I heard something from the guys in the pro shop saying that he wanted to make it the PB of the south and charge about $300+. Recently I've heard from some SB/Ventura residents that the idea has been put on hold because of some strong backlash to the idea. IMHO, there is nothing wrong with Sandpiper and this is a bad idea. I can understand some reworking ala Soule Park, but links style? This is not a knock on RTJ, jr at all, it's just the idea of a links style course there seems silly. The setting is very similar to Torrey Pines as you know. SP is already expensive and I think the backlash is probably due to the increased cost angle more than "preserving" the course. Let's face it, there are not alot of inexpensive courses to play in that area.

I only played Sandpiper once and it was thirty years ago, but even in those days it seemed to me to be a missed opportunity.  There are so many mediocre holes on what should be some great headland terrain.

You're right about not a lot of good public, affordable golf in that area.  Santa Barbara Golf Club (used to be the SB Muni) is not worth a trip but is cheap, I've played a couple of hundred rounds there.  I'd rather play it than spend the money at either Sandpiper or Rancho San Marcos.

Did not the previous owner of Sandpiper have plans to remodel the course? I seem to remember looking at the plans at the pro shop. It involved scraping the course bare and getting more holes on the ocean. I heard that they thought they could get it done without an environmental review but due to the cost, time, and coastal commission approval, the remodel was abandoned.

What are green fees at Sandpiper these days? I had to give up on Sandpiper due to cost. When I first moved to SB, I remember playing for under $30.

Did SB Muni finish the green replacement? I think they were doing two a year. Really enjoyed playing there too, but the slow play got to me - waiting on nearly every shot due to its layout.

Embarrassed to say I became a Glenn Annie regular. I knew when it was empty, reasonably priced and well maintained at the time. Smashed into a property way too hilly and small for 18 holes making it potentially dangerous.

I assume the proposed course in Goleta on the other side of Bacara is never going to happen. Was it not to be called Dos Pueblo's with land provided by Arco? Last I heard coastal commission killed it.

[Jed Peters]

Jed; on the flip side, if you want to play crappy, score low, and not have much fun...head to Encinitas Ranch.

I was making a point that the course was not too hard to begin with, and these people were crazy in their thinking.

When I played it earlier this summer, I, along with my 96-shooting brother in law, both LOVED the place.

[David Stamm]

Jed; on the flip side, if you want to play crappy, score low, and not have much fun...head to Encinitas Ranch.

I was making a point that the course was not too hard to begin with, and these people were crazy in their thinking.


You hit the nail on the head Jed!

When I played it earlier this summer, I, along with my 96-shooting brother in law, both LOVED the place.


That's exactly why I don't understand this. But then again, your bro in law was playing with someone who knew a thing or two!

[Patrick Kiser]

A little late in responding to this.

What a real bummer.  I was actually making plans to come down for this in the spring along with rounds at Rustic and possibly Ojai.


David,

Question.  Still worth the trip?  Or are the changes just too much to appreciate the course any longer?

[David Stamm]

A little late in responding to this.

What a real bummer.  I was actually making plans to come down for this in the spring along with rounds at Rustic and possibly Ojai.


David,

Question.  Still worth the trip?  Or are the changes just too much to appreciate the course any longer?

Patrick, it absolutely is worth it. In the grand scheme of the course, it doesn't ruin the overall, it's just frustrating to see changes happening so quickly to accomodate a small group of players who expect a course to lay down for them. Let me know when you're coming and we'll play it. Despite my rants, you won't regret it. In regards to Ojai, if you haven't played it, it's worth seeing if you play it at the twilight rate. Otherwise, it's not worth the fare.

[Bryan Izatt]

David,

Here are some other pictures from when we were there in early December.  Re the 6th hole I thought it was a great little hole.  As I recall it there was a big bunker fronting the green that made the green near impossible to drive, although I managed to hook it under a tree and down the cart path to the left of the green.  Are you saying that that bunker is now gone.  That'd be a shame.  In the third picture below, do you have any idea what the foozle bunker was doing in front of that tee.  I thought it might have been a vestige from an earlier version of the course, but seemed out of context on the current course.

[David Stamm]

Bryan, here are some comparison photo's. When you played, the changes had already taken place.


The cross bunker on the 4 hole as it was before. They chopped this one in half.



The view of the 6th. That small bunker in the center has been taken out, god knows why...




Here's the 10th. Compare it to yours. The center one on mine has been taken out to "provide for a run up shot".





BTW, that last one of yours is of the 11th at Ojai.

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