[Tom_Doak]

Here is a course acknowledged as "great" by most of the rankings yet which gets little to no discussion here.  When it does get any discussion, it's about the Postage Stamp hole, or about how overrated the course is otherwise.

I do agree that the course is rated higher than it should be.  Most championship courses have the same advantage, though.  If it was just a one-hole course then it would not have its present standing, Opens or no Opens.

So what about the holes that are underrated or ignored?

I would single out holes 6, 7, 11, 13, 15, 16 and 17.  But instead of explaining them all as I did for Garden City, I'll let others chime in first.

[ed_getka]

Tom,
   I have never seen the course (other than TV), but I have little interest in seeing it from what I have gathered here and others writing about it (Finegan, Steele, etc..).
   It will be interesting to hear what others think or why you chose the holes you did. Without specifics is there anything so unique at RT that I won't see it in traveling to a variety of courses throughout the UK?

[kconway]

i played at troon once and my rememberances were:

  - very snooty place
  - many hard, but not pleasant holes
  - constant drone of jets descending to Prestwick Airport

I do remember 16, 17 and 18 just wore me down.

[Mark_Fine]

Royal Troon might be another one of those understated links courses but despite that, I've never played one I didn't like.  The thing you have to realize about links golf is that the quality of the golf experience has a lot to do with the weather.  Links golf courses come to life in the elements.  A seemly dull hole which RT has a few, can get much more interesting when the wind kicks up.  

Back to the Giants/Patriots game.
Mark  

[JESII]

Mark,

Why don't you give us an analysis of a couple holes at Troon that you think are worth discussion...other than #8.

[Jon McNey]

It's been a few years, but I do remember the first five holes as being the dullest stretch on any of the Scottish Open courses.  Wind generally at your back the first six, which makes them play very short.   Six through eleven were the most interesting holes--7, 8 & 9 had more of a links character than the others.  Eleven was a very tight long hole-about 480 and gorse left and out of bounds right, but a good hole.  Eleven through eighteen generally against the wind, all long and all hard and fair.  Not pretty or memorable but require well struck, accurate shots.  Eighteen green up against clubhouse is a nice setting.  It's U.S. Open equivalent might be Hazeltine.

[ed_getka]

John,
  Can you pick a hole from the interesting #6-11 stretch and go into some more detail, particularly at the green end. Thanks.

[Matthew Schulte]

In general terms, Royal Troon has 3 very good par 3s offering great variety.  It has some of the toughest par 4s to be found anywhere, and in my opinion has 3 solid par 5s.  I think it has fairly good variety in its' green sites with several raised, domed greens, a few surrounded by dunes, and a few with a dune on one side and fall offs on the other side.  

I agree that the opening holes not only occupy the least interesting terrain but are also the easiest on the course.  However, the pressure of knowing you need to take advantage of these holes before getting to the brutal back nine makes the starting sequence exciting.  

Six is a nice par 5 with a fairway that plays to a relatively narrow fairway in a valley saddled on both sides by dunes and has a well sited green hard against a dune on its' right and a pot bunker left.  The second shot is made interesting for those going for the green (downwind) in two by two staggered fairway bunkers, one on both sides of the fairway, some 30 to 60 yards short of the green.

I think most would agree that number seven is a very good hole.  Interesting angles off of the tee.  Long hitters really must shape their tee shot left to right to keep it from running through the left side of the fairway.  Being able to see the green from the tee often has the classic effect of pulling players too far in that direction.  The approach shot is intimidating to a player who laid well back off the tee as the green is well bunkered and surrounded beautifully by dunes.

Nine is an interesting contrast to the previous three holes in that its' green is a table top occupying the highest ground with no bunkering.  The unforgiveable miss is long and right as the contouring off the green will likely send the ball toward the gorse.  

In my opinion hole number 11 is too narrow off the tee for such a long hole that usually plays into the wind.  Gorse on both sides plus out of bounds right.  The real choice is not to aim for the left or right side of the fairway, but rather to lay back and play it as a 3 shot hole or to try and fit a driver anwhere in play!

Holes 12, 13 and 14, interestingly, have a loosely similar green shape design.  All of them are pear shaped with the front portions of the greens being narrow and the backs of the greens being wider.  

15 is another monster of a par 4 with a wildly contoured fairway.  Unfortunately, most of the heaviest contours are beyond the reach of most players especially when playing into the wind.  Too bad as these wonderful contours would produce exciting bounces and challenging stances.  The green is surrounded by dunes with the right side being partially obscurred by the humps fronting the green.  

I think as a set, Royal Troon has solid par 5s made interesting by their second shots.  Like number six, the second shot on 16 is made interesting by staggered fairway bunkers.  These bunkers are particularly effective as they are not visible which makes the shot even less comfortable.  The narrowness of this heavily bunkered green makes it an elusive target playing into the wind.

I also have to disagree about the negative atmosphere of the club.  I have found everyone there to be very welcoming.  Although their policy of requiring visitors to pay for a round on the Portland course is certainly discouraging especially with the current exchange rate.

[Kevin Pallier]

It will be interesting to hear what others think or why you chose the holes you did. Without specifics is there anything so unique at RT that I won't see it in traveling to a variety of courses throughout the UK?

Ed

Troon shares a similarity with two other courses on the current British Open rota (TOC + Royal L & St A) with a classic "out and back" routing and was for mine - a tale of pretty much - 3 parts.

The first 5 holes were pretty benign on a very flat stretch of links land and it wasn't until I hit the 6th that I started to get "interested" so to speak. The terrain then starts to change and that's when the course is at is most interesting IMO.

6 (P5) One's faced with a tight drive and then a fairway that falls slightly right to left. The hole progressively narrows to a well framed and narrow green with a fall-off to the left. I quite liked it as unless you split the fairway - you're pretty much playing catch-up all the way.

7 (P4) Is an unheralded golf hole probably because of all the talk about 8 but is a darn good hole in it's own right. An elevated tee - one is faced with a tight drive to a hole that doglegs to the right. The green is set on a plateau with deep bunkers left and right. If one's short - the ball will run back down a hill and possibly into another bunker. An exact shot is required into it - even a low runner will do the job.

8 (P3) No description necessary - a joy to play. Even 8b) is as well  

9 (P4) I like the fact that the two-tiered green is unbunkered - with little contours surrounding it. A little imagination is required to play it.

10 (P4) a tough somewhat blind drive into the prevailing breeze and another unbunkered green with a drop-off to the right. A difficult target to hit in two.

11 (P4) - another tough drive with gorse left and OOB right. I cant remember if there is a bunker near the green ? but it has a little fall off to the left so if you miss it you're faced with a tough little chip. As I have alluded to - one really needs to be on with their short game to score well.

From 13 in it's virtually a test of strength so long as you stay out of the bunkers (+ your chipping skills will continue to be tested) as the holes are pretty much all into the breeze and hitting the greens in regulation will be a tough ask. 13 was also an interesting hole - being an unbunkered P4.

It's a tough B9 and probably only behind Carnoustie and probably Royal St George's in terms of difficulty coming in. As such, a worthy championship venue but it is probably held back in terms of overall quality by it's benign begining.

Ed - you'd find more beauty at Turnberry and more fun and
interest at TOC and Prestwick. I enjoyed the challenge it presented within it's routing but would rather play probably five to six Open rota courses again before going back to Troon.

Aside: for those questioning the hospitality/atmosphere of the club - in my experience it couldn't have been more pleasureable

[Mark_Fine]

I'm sure some here have played Royal Troon many more times than the few times that I have.  However, I do think one of the reasons some people down play it is because not every hole would win a beauty contest.  These days it seems if a hole isn’t pretty enough to hang a print behind your desk, it can’t be very good    Great is defined by beautifully shaped bunkers and perfectly integrated green complexes, something that will wow us standing on every tee and in every fairway.  At Troon, it takes a while till you get to the more visibly stimulating holes which are at the far end of the golf course.  The stretch from #7-#12 is where most golfers who don’t play a lot of links golf will get more excited.  

Still, Troon is a strong test of golf and a test of character especially in the wind (as I said before, if you know links golf, the weather conditions play a huge role with who these courses play).  Take the first hole for example which sits on flat ground and looks pretty bland on paper.  It is only 360 yards and very straightforward (or is it).  I played there one time with wind conditions that tempted you to drive the green.  I hung a drive out along the beach, rode the wind, and ended up in a greenside bunker 350 yards away.  On another occasion, the wind was in our face and I couldn’t reach the first fairway bunker on the left (only 240 yards or so out) with even my best drive.  I remember trying to hit a low 5I into that green from 125 yards away and came up short.  On another more benign day (at least at the start of the round) I hit a 2I down the right side away from the fairway bunkers on the left.  I hit a wedge close and started the round with birdie.  

Is the course “over rated”?  I guess that depends on who is doing the rating.  While it is not my favorite links it is still a treat to play.  I give it a 7 and any 7 is well worth the visit.  

[michael_j_fay]

Royal Troon is a solid difficult test of golf. I have played it twice and remember that it was tough and unyielding. My problem is that the "memorability" factor is rather low and it being tucked in that area of Scotland where Turnberry, Prestwick and Western Gailes lurk hurts its chances of being played numerous times.

Turnberry is probably one of the most memorable courses I have ever played and Prestwick is just so different and interesting it must catch your attention. Troon just does not have that "je ne sais quoi".

[Tom_Doak]

Michael:

Interesting to me that you included Western Gailes in your list of courses more interesting than Troon.  Jim Urbina fell in love with Western Gailes on his first trip also.  I've never understood that one myself -- I even stopped in there this spring to see if I'd missed something.

Western Gailes is similar to Royal Troon in my opinion, in that it has a couple of very memorable holes and the rest is on fairly ordinary terrain.  But, I think that people EXPECT Royal Troon to be better (because it's an Open site) and DON'T have expectations of Western Gailes (because there aren't any books about it), so they are pleasantly surprised by the latter and disappointed by the former.  

But if you did a match play between the two courses, I don't see how you could possibly wind up with Western Gailes on top.

I'd like to hear more about who likes what at Royal Troon, but I will start with a reminiscence.  When I was 15, and severely interested in golf, my parents took me to Scotland for four days en route to my dad's business dealings in London and Rotterdam.  In those days, you landed at Prestwick Airport, so the first links course any of us ever saw was Royal Troon.

We were supposed to play, but the club had this rule that no one under 18 could play the big course, which would have pissed me off immensely if I wasn't so tired from the overnight flight.  So, we only went out and walked the course.  

We went on to St. Andrews and to Gleneagles, but for the rest of her life, Royal Troon represented my mom's impression of links golf -- how rugged and wild and woolly it all was.  It had a great appeal to her, even though she could hardly imagine trying to play a course like that.

[michael_j_fay]

Tom:

You may well be right. I think that the two courses (Royal Troon and Western Gailes) are quite similar and I must admit that my expectations at Troon were heightened by its reputation whereas Western Gailes had no such reputation.

I still think that Royal Troon lacks the imagination and memorability of the Open Championship venues.

I would rank it dead last of the twelve remaining Open venues employed over the years.

[Matt MacIver]

Having only played it once, but recently (5/07), I found too many unmemorable holes.  I just went back through my scorecard and couldn't even recall #4, which evidently I birdied -- a rarity (the bird, not the recall).  

There may be preferred lined of play on the first six holes, but upon one play all I saw was six straight holes.  Maybe a few more times around would make me appreciate where to leave my tee ball to better attack the greens.  

I knew 7 was special (at least different) from the tee and loved the green setting -- it too was unique from the first six.  I also liked 9's green setting, in a little hollow, that just screamed for a running show, to which I obloged.  10 was a little tight, for me, while 11 opened up and had an interesting green.  

I then blank out again until 16 (barely), while 17 and 18 were fine, alhough I did really enjoy the bunkering at the 18th green.  

All in all glad I saw it but won't rush back to play until I've experienced many other courses over there, and it certainly is the worse value when you add the required Portrush round -- or forego it altogether.  

Sidenote: we played Western Gailes the day before.  It had been signifcantly hyped to us beforehand, so we were expecting the second coming of {your favorite here}.  I left unimpressed, probably due to the preview, and can only comment on 6 and 7 being quality holes.  

I know I missed a lot on both courses with only one go- round, such is the subtle nature of links courses.  

[Sean_A]

I spose my main problem with Troon is that it relies on bunkering to provide nearly all of its interest save for a few holes.  I know this is  a bit of a copout because I like Muirfield a load and the bunkering is what makes the course, but somehow (and maybe someone can tell me what it is about the bunkering that makes Muirfield so special) Muirfield pulls it off better.  

The second problem I have is that the return to the house is a slog (which is also Deal's biggest fault) into the prevailing wind.  It seems like a load of driver-3 woods.  Though one hole I really admire is the 15th.  I love the wonderful gate effect between the two fronting bunkers.  If you can slide by these two in two then par is just around the corner.  

At the end of the day, I think Troon is just that much too difficult for the likes of a 9 capper to properly enjoy - this seems to be the case with more than the odd Open course.  In a way its a shame because the club does let the turf go cookie brown and I do think they keep the place in excellent nick.  

I would be tempted to go back and see if I am mistaken at all, but when I see they want £220 for the priveledge my initial response is they can stick it up their ....

Ciao

[Mark_F]

Matthew and Kevin,

Thanks for such fine and eloquent descriptions.

Still, Troon is a strong test of golf and a test of character especially in the wind

Mark,

Couldn't a strong test of golf and character be used to describe any old course on any old piece of land?

You could certainly use it to describe Carnoustie, and I wonder how many think that course is overrated compared to the numbers who think Troon is?

Sean:

Don't they have a winter green fee?  Or is that still over the hundred quid mark, too?

[Mark_Fine]

Mark,
I added in "a test of character" because I believe not all courses test this aspect of a golfer.  Troon does and it is just a neat old classic links in that regard.  Nothing fancy and nothing tricked up.  In some ways it is a bit like Portmarnock.  A lot of people think that course is over rated as well because it doesn't possess those dramatic holes that we like to associate with great golf.  Hoylake is also similar in appearance, a drab lunar landscape.  I believe you have to play these courses a lot to really appreciate them.  That is one of the reasons many Americans go over there and come back disenchanted.  Unlike most American courses, a links course needs numerous visits under varying weather conditions to really appreciate that these courses hold the essence of the real game of golf.  

Just my opinion.
Mark

[Adrian_Stiff]

I think Troon is probably the 9th best of our current rota.
1-3 are very average. 4 is ok, I think 5 is a good short hole 6 is ok, then 7 thru 13 i think are a nice stretch, 9 I think is very underated, 13 i love the green complex. The closing 5 are tough but relatively dull, but i suppose they do challenge the top players. Troon to me is maybe 5th best in Ayr, it has the history, but does not really have 18 great holes, it relys solely on the quirk of 7-13 and probably colects £120 of its £220 on the strength o the 8th. No real flaws though.

[Tim_Weiman]

Tom,

I have always been more impressed with Royal Troon than most folks here basically because it strikes me as a course that doesn't try too hard to be more than it is. It is what it is, so to speak, and I always found that refreshing.

That is not exactly a detailed description, but it is just the feeling I got playing the course.

Sure, I'd rather play at Prestwick (or maybe even
Western Gailes). Then too, nearby Turnberry can be a delight (especially if the round is followed by dinner in the big dining room watching the sunset).

But, if I'm in the area I think I would always enjoy Royal Troon.....and it is still the place with the best caddy I have ever had, so that memory will never be lost.

[ed_getka]

Very useful responses gents. Thanks.

That seals it for me. There just isn't enough unique, can't afford to miss it, architecture there for me to even THINK about paying that kind of money. I will be interested in hearing what number Tom D will assign to the course when he talks about the holes he likes there.
   When I finally make it to the west coast of Scotland the only two courses that I know I will play at this point are Machrihanish and Prestwick. I most likely will try to see Machrie just for the fun and quirk.
   I had heard good things about Western Gailes over the years, such that I thought it was a course I would seek out, but there seems to be a bit of a consensus that there isn't loads going on there either. I suppose the price has to be more favorable than RT. The greatest attribute of WG I seem to remember is the purity of the greens. Any truth to that?

[ed_getka]

Tim,
   I can see your point about the course being what it is and all that, but at that price point can't you find other courses that do the same thing? I'm just curious. I've only made one trip over and didn't make it to the west side of Scotland.

[Bill_McBride]

I haven't played Troon or even been to that part of Scotland yet, but Royal Troon is one of my earliest memories of overseas golf because of Arnold Palmer's win there in 1962.  I was in college at the time and we didn't have a TV at the fraternity house, so I just read about his victory in Sports Illustrated.

The 11th hole was the one that stuck with me, and is one of my earliest thoughts about golf architecture, because Palmer just ate the field alive at that hole.  Even into a brisk wind, and with the railroad track all the way down the narrow fairway with OB right and deep hay left, Palmer never backed off.  I think he made three birdies and an eagle and that pretty much created his winning margin.

Today it's apparently even more difficult playing as a par 4, 480 yards.  I suspect I will still play it as a par 5 if I ever get there!  

[Mike Benham]

Royal Troon gets the same rap that Spyglass gets in the States ...

Not enough memorable holes, difficult test of golf, should be better then it is on the piece of land it is on, etc.

[Ian Andrew]

Tom,

Things I like:

I love the way the bunkers are much smaller and much tighter to the greens than many of the other links courses mentioned above. They seem to often eat right into the sides of some of the greens. I like the holes like the 15th in particular with the way the approach to the green is dictated by the land in front of the green and how knowledge is very useful to understanding the options.

I was disappointed in:

The opening is very non-descript with almost no dunes. If you’re downwind it happens to be short too, but that’s not a particular complaint. I do like the 5th through to the 8th, but I’ll never get the fuss on the 9th.
The 12th, 13th and 15th were may favorites but I found that the finish again only had limit appeal since your pretty much out of the interesting land and it once again becomes a little non-descript.

The part that makes it great for a championship is the part that puts me off the most. I find Troon to be more about execution than I do about having the choice to try different shots or play for particular positions. This may be “my problem” because I’m an average player, but I don’t find the course particularly fun compared to the Prestwicks and Wester Gailles that I enjoy playing.

To answer the Western Gailles question – you have some holes where imagination pays dividends and that makes the course fun to play. Occasionally a shot away from the green is well rewarded and that always amused the hell out of me. I think the other charm is the course is a little more playable since you can hit clubs other than driver from the tee.

For the record (Matt Ward ), I played one of my best rounds there and it still didn’t make me love the course.

[Mike McGuire]

  - constant drone of jets descending to Prestwick Airport

When we played the jets were landing non stop. The flight pattern was directly over the course - it borders the airport. I have never been so close (directly underneath) to planes landing. It was impressive if you like planes but some would call it distracting.

When you go to Scotland you think of charming-  super old school golf - not 767's 300 ft over your head.

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