[Sandy Smith]

I have been to both before , Scotland twice. For a group of eight guys what and where would you choose for a two week trip ? Is trying to fit in a bit of both a bad idea ? Do you think Ireland is over/under rated ?

[cary lichtenstein]

Since you have been to Scotland twice, spend your 2 weeks in Ireland.

Everyone does the SW which I have done twice, but you will have enuf time to do the North and East plus lots of hidden gems.

You will have enuf time to really absorb all of Ireland.

If your group wants to do both, I think you can certainly do both in 2 weeks.

Ireland is terrific

[Matthew Schulte]

Sandy:

I suppose that depends upon the members of your group.  It seems that most first time visitors want to play The Old Course more than any other course.  They also seem to want to play as many courses as possible.  I understand that however, you won't get a very good sense for any of the places you visit.  

Scotland certainly has more depth than Ireland does.  However, if you like the spectacular big dunes that are common on many of the Irish links, especially on the west coast, Ireland wins hands down.  Flights are very inexpensive between Scotland and Ireland.  If you are going for more than a week and your goal is to sample a little of both I think it is very doable to visit both.

The truth is both are great experiences and both should be visited.  

[Bill_McBride]

From what I've been reading, it would be fairly easy to do Northern Ireland (Royal Co Down, Royal Portrush) and then take the ferry over to western Scotland.  Your travel agent could get you into Belfast and out of either Edinburgh or Glasgow.

[J_ Crisham]

Ireland in my opinion is a better trip-I visit here biannually so note the bias. Fly to Dublin and play Portmarnock on Day 1then get the hell out of this busy city. Go play The European Club on day 2. Them reverse directions and head north to Baltray(CO. Louth). Next RCD. then Portrush, Enniscrone, Co. Sligo -Rosse's Point, Ballyliffin, Carne-possibly the neatest course( other than Cruden Bay) .Day 11 experience Lahinch, then Doonbeg,Ballybunion, and finish at the fun Dooks! This route will avoid any drive longer than 2hrs other than going from Belmullet -Carne to Lahinch. It's a pain in the ass drive but well worth it. Good Luck ! Please send me an IM if I can be of any help.

[Mark Smolens]

The ferry was a fun way to get from Scotland to Ireland, but if you decide to go to Ireland, find a tour guide by the name of Jimmy O'Leary.  He knows every course owner, restaurant owner, and hotel/innkeeper in all of Ireland (and having him drive you around in his bus is the best way to go. . . )

[Matt_Ward]

Sandy:

Head to Ireland -- the top tier layouts (the elite 5-6) are better than what you get in Scotland IMHO -- it's also easier to get around Ireland than Scotland -- especially if you follow the advice of others in terms of getting an experienced driver to handle all of those laborious chores.

I concur that a visit to the northeast / northwest sections of Ireland / Northern Ireland is often left out. Plenty of fine courses to add to your menu in both areas. Of course, when in No Ireland you need to play County Down and Dunluce at Portrush -- both are world class -- so long as the rough doesn't become overly penal because of the too narrow fairways at Dunluce.

I would caution against trying to do both during the time frame you mentioned. You would be simply "on the go" to such a degree that you would rarely be able to really inhale the overall qualities of the land, people and other non-golf related aspects worth exploring.

In sum -- Ireland is not overrated -- anyone making such a claim really needs to get their head examined.

[Bart Bradley]

I've played both...both are great trips.

More golf for the money---Ireland

More history for the money---Scotland

Either way---heaven on earth.  

Have fun,

Bart

[Sean_A]

It doesn't really matter much which country you visit.  Both have spectacular courses with large pockets of 2nd tier courses which can be as arresting as the 1st tier courses.  I think the important thing is to be choosy about the areas/courses you want to hang about.  Don't try to see everything, play some courses on consecutive days etc.  Weather can be a big factor - its nice to see courses in different conditions or just to hang about a nice town for a spell.  The trip should feel like a holiday rather than a death march.

Ciao

[Matthew Schulte]

Sandy:

You may find the attached article by George Peper from Links Magazine helpful as he asks and answers your very question.

http://www.linksmagazine.com/golf_travel/international/ireland/scotland_vs._ireland.aspx

[Dan Boerger]

I really agree with what Sean said. I would not try to cram in too many courses and would even consider playing some courses -- like Royal Portrush in Ireland for example -- two times. Good luck with the weather -- it can make a world of difference in how enjoyable the golf is.

[Mark Chaplin]

Sandy,

Having been to both Scotland and Ireland why not consider England?

Around Liverpool/Blackpool you have Royals Lytham, Liverpool and Birkdale all excellent Open venues as well as some very pleasant second tier links courses in the area.

I will try and sell you the South East of England which has been discussed here before as having some of the finest courses you can pay on within a max 120 minute drive.

On the Kent coast are 3 Open venues, Sandwich is still on the rota and Deal is improving and could hold a significant event in the next decade. Princes makes up the 3rd Open venue all of which are a max $20 cab ride from Sandwich or Deal towns. No excuse then for not having  full lunch, too much claret and trying some Kummel! Further down the coast are Littlestone and the famous Rye links.

The South East is home to some of the finest inland heath courses in the world. Sunningdale, Walton Heath and The Berkshire are top draw closely followed by The Addington, West Sussex, New Zealand, Woking, Worplesdon, West Hill, Hankley Common and Swinley Forest to name a few.

Fly into London, no changing planes on this trip, maybe spend a night or two in the city tasting it's historical, cultural and culinary delights. Sneak a game at Royal Blackheath the world's oldest club outside Scotland and make sure you view the museum. Then hire a car and hit the motorways to your games. No tiny backroads on this trip.

[Bill_McBride]

Sandy,

Having been to both Scotland and Ireland why not consider England?

Around Liverpool/Blackpool you have Royals Lytham, Liverpool and Birkdale all excellent Open venues as well as some very pleasant second tier links courses in the area.

I will try and sell you the South East of England which has been discussed here before as having some of the finest courses you can pay on within a max 120 minute drive.

On the Kent coast are 3 Open venues, Sandwich is still on the rota and Deal is improving and could hold a significant event in the next decade. Princes makes up the 3rd Open venue all of which are a max $20 cab ride from Sandwich or Deal towns. No excuse then for not having  full lunch, too much claret and trying some Kummel! Further down the coast are Littlestone and the famous Rye links.

The South East is home to some of the finest inland heath courses in the world. Sunningdale, Walton Heath and The Berkshire are top draw closely followed by The Addington, West Sussex, New Zealand, Woking, Worplesdon, West Hill, Hankley Common and Swinley Forest to name a few.

Fly into London, no changing planes on this trip, maybe spend a night or two in the city tasting it's historical, cultural and culinary delights. Sneak a game at Royal Blackheath the world's oldest club outside Scotland and make sure you view the museum. Then hire a car and hit the motorways to your games. No tiny backroads on this trip.

Hard to argue with Mark about a trip to England.  My son and I went over for the Buda Cup in 2006 and played four courses that ranged from excellent to superlative in a six day period - Hoylake (Royal Liverpool), Wallasey, Delamere Forest and Beau Desert.  Hoylake is an Open rota course again, Wallasey a qualifier, Delamere Forest and Beau Desert two outstanding heathland Herbert Fowler gems.

It's easy to put together good golf in close proximity in England, as easy as Scotland and easier than Ireland I think.

The exchange rate is brutal anywhere you could go, although the pound is down from $2.09 to $1.99 over the past couple of weeks.  

[Evan_Smith]

If you do end up going to Ireland, I would do the Northern Ireland Links (RCD and Ardglass on your way north, both Portrush courses, Castlerock and Portstewart) and then head to County Donegal and work your way down towards Sligo.  You have 2 great courses at Ballyliffin, Portsalon and then both courses at Rosapenna (including some of the most beautiful views I've ever witnessed).  After Rosapenna you can head down to play Donegal, Rosses Point, Enniscrone and Carne.  Strandhill is just outside Sligo Town, and is another option.  I realize this would be a crazy trip to do all the courses suggested, but I'm just trying to point out all of your options.  Plus the golf in the Northwest is actually affordable with 70 Euro being the top price.  Northern Ireland is a bit more pricey, but no more than the courses in the southwest of Ireland.

[Bill_McBride]

If you do end up going to Ireland, I would do the Northern Ireland Links (RCD and Ardglass on your way north, both Portrush courses, Castlerock and Portstewart) and then head to County Donegal and work your way down towards Sligo.  You have 2 great courses at Ballyliffen, Portsalon and then both courses at Rosapenna (including some of the most beautiful views I've ever witnessed).  After Rosapenna you can head down to play Donegal, Rosses Point, Enniscrone and Carne.  Strandhill is just outside Sligo Town, and is another option.  I realize this would be a crazy trip to do all the courses suggested, but I'm just trying to point out all of your options.  Plus the golf in the Northwest is actually affordable with 70 Euro being the top price.  Northern Ireland is a bit more pricey, but no more than the courses in the southwest of Ireland.

Don't want to quibble, but Royal County Down is 135 quid and I think the Dunluce at Royal Portrush is also in that neighborhood.  Everything else is quite a bit lower as you mentioned.

I was disappointed in Ardglass a bit, I expected the cliffside holes to be a bit more spectacular and not to have so many not so good holes inland.  The castle clubhouse and the start are pretty good.

[Evan_Smith]

Bill- If you re-read my post you will see that I said the golf in Northern Ireland is more pricey than the golf in Northwest Ireland.  Last time I checked they were still 2 different countries.    I believe the 135 pounds at RCD would be close to the equivalent price to play the famous courses of the Southwest.

[Bill_McBride]

Sorry, I was thinking Northern Ireland as a whole.  We unfortunately didn't get to Donegal so didn't experience it.

[Evan_Smith]

Bill, I can just about guarantee that if you play the courses of the Northwest and West Coast of Ireland, you will agree that for the money, they're the best deals on the island of Ireland.

[J_ Crisham]

Evan, I agree with all of your choices and would add Connemara on the drive down to Shannon.

[Sandy Smith]

Thanks guys , it has been 20 years since I was in Ireland . It is a great help to find out the north west to be so good . Evan , is Doonbeg worth the money ? And how about the others in that area .

[Evan_Smith]

Sandy- Unfortunately I haven't played any golf in the Southwest.  My Dad has and of course loved Lahinch and both courses at Ballybunion.  They didn't play Tralee or Doonbeg because the cost was crazy.  Why wouldn't I just play Lahinch or Ballybunion again for less money was their reasoning.  Also, they ran out of days.  I have played extensively on the Causeway Coast in N. Ireland and played the West Coast courses (Rosses Point, Carne, Enniscrone and Strandhill) and thought that they were all great deals.  County Donegal is probably the best deal in Ireland.  Portsalon for 35 Euro can't be beat.  There are quite a few courses in Donegal.  I think you could easily stay your entire 2 weeks in Donegal and have a great time (and you would save a ton of money).  Plus, it would give you the chance to play the courses more than once and the scenery is fantastic!

[J_ Crisham]

Sandy, Given the unfavorable exchange rate the cost, quality ,and quantity of the courses in the West and NW are hard to beat. They will be less crowded than down in Kerry so the pace of play is brisk-3hrs. Donegal or Murvaigh as it is known by the locals is nice but I can think of 8-10 others I'd play before it. Just a personal feeling. Carne is a must-Belmullet is at the end of the earth but worth the trip.  It allows me to stop on the way to visit family hence the justification.

[Sean_A]

Sandy

I am making a return trip to the Donegal/Sligo area next June.  I wanted to get on Donegal again because I really like the course, but tee times didn't work out so Strandhill has been substituted in.  The cost is very reasonable:

Strandhill - 40 Euro
Rosses Point - 90 Euro (the one course I think is over charging)
Carne X 2 - 35 Euro on the weekend (if you pay fully in advance)
Enniscrone - 60 Euro

Thats 260 Euros in green fees for 5 games with the chance of later afternoon games at a reduced rate if the weather is decent.  IMO this is about the best deal going for excellent golf.

Ciao

[Evan_Smith]

Sean- Have you played Strandhill before?  I really liked it and I thought for the money it was a good deal.

Rosses Point has really upped their fees.  We paid 70 Euro at the end of May 2006.  I love the course, so I think I'd still be happy paying 90 though.

[Sean_A]

Sean- Have you played Strandhill before?  I really liked it and I thought for the money it was a good deal.

Rosses Point has really upped their fees.  We paid 70 Euro at the end of May 2006.  I love the course, so I think I'd still be happy paying 90 though.

Evan

There is no question that Rosses Point considers themselves to be the darling of the area. I think we paid 55 Euro on a weekend about 3 years ago.  If there was anyway to give the place a miss without going to a really sub-standard place I would have.  I hate it when clubs think they are top dog especially when imo they are a far cry from it.  To me, Rosses Point is strictly a matter of convenience in this situation.  I bet they don't get many local paying that green fee.

I have never seen or even heard much about Strandhill.  I am looking forward to a game there.  

Ciao

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