[eb]

Rich, hearing a letter from Sunnyvale helped get you on to Muirfield made my day.  Sunnyvale is unfortunately one of the best courses I've played, so to hear it linked with Muirfield is great.  I can't wait until I'm out of college so that I'll have the finances to be able to play a respectable course or two.  Until then I'll have to settle for looking at pictures on this great website.

[A.G._Crockett]

Yo, guys.  I don't mean to hijack the same thread twice, but if you didn't go to the link in Dan Kelly's earlier post, you really, really should.

Now back to disappointing golf experiences...

[Andy Hodson]

mike beene

bad collection of par 5s and Von Hagge are a recurring theme, I have found. Around the Houston area, there are a few Devlin/Von Hagge tracks, and some of the worst par 5s, as a collection, I've played.

In fact, I know a very good amateur in the Houston area (lost in the round of 16 in the US Am 4-5 years ago at Pebble) who changed clubs in Houston because at his D/VH course he felt he wasn't getting the proper practice on par 5s that he would needed to compete on the national amateur level.

[Jack_Marr]

I thought Bundoran was pretty brutal, but it might have just been the day. Other than that, I can't think.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Southern California--So many bad courses, so little time..........

But here is my list: (All of them are the worst golf courses I have ever been on.)

Cypress Golf Club-Cypress, California--As Rich has mentioned--The other California Cypress, which on in The Confidential Guide was properly graded a "0" which Jim Urbina himself couldn't save. (Jim worked here for Perry Dye) Cypress Golf Club in Cypress, California is really that bad. It's just a bunch of hole literally "clumped" together with massive containment and fairways literally 10 yards wide in some spots. Ironically, the course doesn't bother me all that much, and what is even more unfortunate it that it was relying on a concept I think really could have worked--if it could have had more room for which to build upon--Golf & Horse Racing. A favorite pastime of mine that makes for a perfect Saturday. Lose money out at the golf course, and go out to the track to lose more money out there too. Even Tiger Woods used to play here, both on this version and at the old Los Alamitos Golf Course, which was an executive tract that once shared the same space as the current par 72 behemoth that exist there now or at least for now. Rumors are it is slated for destruction soon. The property is too commercially valuable.

PGA West Greg Norman Course-La Quinta, California--This maybe one of the most disappointing courses I have ever been on. I was really looking forward to playing this after the great reports of Wente Vineyards and reported really interesting features at TPC of Sugarloaf. As I have said before, the assistant pro here was pretty exhuberant about how this style of golf course was going to be how all golf courses would be constructed in the future. I told him if this was so, I quit.

The fact is that this course was originally a private affair for PGA West members only. They hated it so much (this is in fact, actual fact) that KSL made it a public course like the Stadium. I have only heard one person say anything positive about the course, and shortly after returning from a trip to Oz, he actually recanted. I would be fully behind anyone that would want to destroy the course and rebuild something better--even if it was Ted Robinson.

Tijera Rejada-Simi Valley, California--This course may in fact be the worst golf course built of all time, it is that bad. Not only was there little thought in what he was desigining here, it is quite evident that he didn't have any though in mind to just how bad os a site this is for golf. In fact, it maybe one of the worst vertically. Soem of the more interesting holes on the course are the famed 10th, which can best be compared to a ski jump and the opening segment of ABC's Wide World of Sports, where the long jump skier gets pulverized after falling down halfway through his run. The 17th, a shortish (seems like all of 89 yards from the back tee) one-shotter with a flat green. Probably the best example of being blinded by coming up with 17 of the worst holes in your golf career and realizing that you have to add one more, so figure out on squeezing it in somewhere.  I wouldn't wish this course on my least favorite dentist.

Cascades Golf Club-Sylmar, California--Take the above review of Tijera Rejada and place it here. Ironically these courses were being built at the same time, and even got into a full-fledged media race on which one was going to be the first to open, because the honor would mean that they were the first public course built in Los Angeles County in something like 30+ years. I forgot which course won the race.

La Habra-Westridge Golf Club, La Habra, California--This course finishes close to Cascades and Tijera Rejada, in both style and substance. And just like the previous two courses, its is so popular that some of the bigger Hollywood studios are considering using it for the next big Western--as a ghost town.

Tustin Ranch Golf Club-Tustin, California-This is the course which I feel is the original model for all CCFAD's. It features caddies that dress in Augusta White coveralls, greener then green turf, flowers and other beautiful flora that decorate this once flat and featureless orange grove. Upon entering the facility, you pass through an arch of a cartway that services holes 10 to 11, and your eyes are thrust with the vision of the magnificent 11th. A par 3 of some 161 yards that features not one, but two water presentations in the fullest Ted Robinson splendor imaginable. There are two pot bunkers that guard the front of the green that protrude out into the water to a really challenging three-tiered green.

The course is surrounded by condos and townhouses. It is the epitome of Golf in Orange County.

[A_Clay_Man]

Tommy- What No BAli HAte?

And I am sorry to say that the worst course I have ever played is at Griffith park in L.A.

Maybe Tommy can tell the world why?

[wdaspin]

Makalei I think it's called, in the hill country of the Big Island.

 

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Adam, You hate a George Thomas designed golf course?

Griffith Park may take 8 hours to play one round, and your playing partners may only know how to speak Korean, but the golf course(s) aren't that bad are they?

[cary lichtenstein]

Biggest disappointment for highly touted new course was Doonbeg done by Greg Norman in Ireland.

Worst and most dangerous routing I have ever seen. I thought he neither took advantage of the water views nor used the land effectively.

[ForkaB]

Tommy

I was talking about redanman's Cypress, the one that weaves through the graveyards in Colma just south of SF.

Jack

I played Bundoran on my honeymoon, and tendto concur with your judgement.

All

Take AG's advice and go to the link that Dan Kelly provided above.

[Mike_Cirba]

Dan Kelly;

Since my invite to Friar's Head fell through today, and I'm left with some pretty "disappointing" choices to play in comparison, I checked out your link.

Just a question, though.  Where's the "Add to Shopping Cart" button?  

[Scott_Burroughs]

Tommy,

Tustin Ranch was one that popped in my mind, as well, when thinking of this thread.  Don't forget the cartpaths with curbs and containment hills separating holes among the things so wonderful about Tustin Ranch.

Bill A,

I also have palyed Makalei on the Big Island.  Literally 900 foot elevation difference from bottom of course to top.  How about that uphill par 4 near the top that was so steep and the fairways mowed so tight (fun with wet turf!), that any ball in the fairway rolled all the back to about 100 yards from tee?  The rough is the place to aim for!  

Awesome views, though!

[Tim_Weiman]

quasssi:

I've been so critical of Doonbeg that my Irish friends think I've gone a bit overboard and think I should give it another chance. But, if I'm in that neck of the woods I'd much rather go check out the work done at Lahinch, a far nicer place to play golf than Doonbeg.

Still, I have come across a new course in Ireland far worse - and out of place - than Doonbeg: Ring of Kerry Golf Club.

Do the real Ring of Kerry tour and don't even bother with this course.

[Tim_Weiman]

Tommy Naccarato:

I think you are being far too critical of Tustin Ranch. It's a fabulous course. Just take a swan dive off the 11th green and float on your back for a while. That will put everything into perspective.

[noonan]

Badlands....Las Vegas.

JK

[michael_j_fay]

Two major contenders in this category have to be The Shattuck in New Hampshire, that has holes that cannot be played and Oceans Edge on the Cape, where the condominiums remain unsold some 20 years after completion.

[Jim_H]

I'm not sure this thread really works.  I guess the real question is--What is the worst course that pretends to be (or should have been) good?  And there are too many assumptions with that question.
As to Old Head, I would ask whoever answered that, when he last played it?  The improvements made on Old Head from the earliest days have been outstanding.  I now think that it is in the top 5 courses in Ireland.  It seems unfair to judge a new course for at least a few years, until it can settle in and appropriate changes be made.
As to Tehama, I heard Jay Morish say that he thought he did the best he could given the uneven land--and I agree.  
The greens are great--and the scenery spectacular.
I suggest that this question is probably not fair--but that's what makes for a debate, I guess.

[THuckaby2]

As to Tehama, I heard Jay Morish say that he thought he did the best he could given the uneven land--and I agree.  
The greens are great--and the scenery spectacular.

I can agree with that also - well said.  It's just a VERY difficult site.

Most incredible parking lot on this earth, also.  

TH

[Tim_Weiman]

Jim H:

The Old Head is the antithesis of what is good about Irish golf, the iron gates symbolic of a corruption so unfortunate that it is painful see and think about.

But, I'll put those feelings aside and focus purely on the architecture. After three visits in the first couple years, I haven't been back in the past several. What improvements have been made that now make the course worthwhile for a return visit?

[Bob_Huntley]

Tommy N.

Not the worst course by far, in fact a much tougher test then the Durban C.C., but as you are into the ponies and golf, Royal Durban G.C. is for you. A flat course in the midst of a racetrack but one very difficult course upon which to score well.

[billb]

Tim W:
I played Old Head in June of 2000. I rather enjoyed enjoyed the course, maybe it was a combination of catching it on a calm, sunny day and the fact that I was 4 down after 10 holes yet won the match 1 up !
After the round, I chatted for a while with the general manager, I don't recall his name, but he was very pleasant! The changes he told me about were: got rid of the pond on #10, rebuilt #16 green to keep it from falling into ocean, and major rebuilding of the second half of #17 fairway. I guess they got rid of a large mound which made for a really blind second shot. He also said they have a constant struggle getting grass to grow due to the exposure and the salt from the ocean. After much trial and error, they felt they had it under control. I found the turf to be very playable.
They were also adding to the greens on numbers 3,4, and 12, there will be some tough pin placements very close to the edges when these are ready!
I thought there were some very good holes - #2,3, and 4 along the cliffs, #7 a nice par 3 to a dune surrounded green, #11 a nice slight uphill par 3, #12 I really liked...a chance to get home in 2 with a solid drive and an aggressive second, the short par 4 #15 and the very strong par 3 #16.
I do agree that it was not the typical Irish experience, but still an enjoyable one. The bartender was also very friendly and the views from the clubhouse are awesome. The only negative from my day there was the stuckup Americans playing behind us!
I am curious....what did you not like about the architecture?
Bill

[Tim_Weiman]

Bill Brownrigg:

Thanks for your comments about Old Head. My last visit was pretty close to when you were there, though it might have been 1999.

Knocking Old Head is one of those things that opens one to the charge of being a snob about golf architecture because there is no doubt that everyone should see the place at least once in their lifetime. Clearly, it is visually stunning and spectacular beyond belief. Beyond that Kinsale is a very nice place. I'm partial to the Blue Haven as a place to stay and enjoyed some very nice meals at a restaurant in town called Crackpots. Also, I'll always remember fondly my first visit and how well I was treated by Noel Thorn (I hope I have the name right?), the caddy master.

As for the architecture, I agree with your comments about #4 and I also enjoyed #17. But, generally the course suffered from a lack of interesting greens/green complexes, quality bunkering and holes that are interesting to play. You mentioned the early problems the course had with turf quality - especially on some of the greens - and I agree. If that has improved, credit should go to the staff as I doubt Old Head is the easiest place to grow grass.

Bill, I'll never be a fan of the way management was handled the situation with locals. It has been far too adversarial and has robbed any sense of the place being Irish. Why go to Ireland to play golf at a place that essentially excludes locals?

But, you are right to suggest I should go back, put my feelings aside and take another look at the architecture. There are far worse places one could spend a day or two.

[Jim_H]

Tim--I'm not sure I can add a lot to the comments made, but the condition of the course has certainly improved; the turf is much improved from the beginning (keeping in mind that there is solid rock not much below the surface); and the condition of the greens is much better.  There have been improvements to some of the green complexes on the back side, but I agree that many are pretty plain.
As to the politics of the Club, I have no thoughts.   But as much as I love the Irish people, I don't know how the exclusion of public play necessarily affects the quality of the course architecture.  Maybe because most of our best US courses are not open for public play?

[THuckaby2]

Jim - I have the same uneasiness as Tim does re the "politics" of Old Head, only because every other Irish club seems to be populated by if not owned by the local members, while allowing access to visitors and being very welcoming to them... and Old Head in its cost is geared completely toward the foreign visitor... The locals can't afford it...  This is how we do things here in the USA, but the LAST thing Irish golf needs is to work off the American model!  So yes, they can sure as heck do what they want, and it does have zero effect on the "architecture"... one just doesn't feel very good giving praise to Old Head, that's all.

Maybe this makes no sense... Tim can likely explain it much better.

TH

[Tim_Weiman]

Tom Huckaby:

Last time I was over, one of my Ballybunion friends said to me, "Tim, you may be a Republican, but when it comes to golf I think you are a socialist". He said it with approval, I think!

I've always found a social aspect to golf in Ireland that we simply don't have here in the States, at least not to nearly the same degree or with the same warmth.

For that and other reasons, I hate to see the creeping American influence in Ireland. As Americans we have been treated so well over the years, that if we have any influence it should be to encourage and preserve Irish golf - not to encourage more Old Heads.

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