[Whit_C]

I am heading out in a few minutes to play a course Tom Doak rated a 0 on the Doak scale, concluding his review with the following: "As David Letterman would say, yeeeeech." In addition he included its first hole on his list of worst openning hole, first one listed in fact.  This made me think: what is the worst course other people have played.  I'm not talking about the old nine holer in a small town layed out by the town engineer, I want to know the worst honest to goodness golf course designed by someone holding themself out as a golf course architect.  

[ForkaB]

shivas

Isn't the proper phrase "Shock and Aweful?"

I'd nominate Pasadera (in the $10 million+ construction budget category).

[THuckaby2]

Rich:

Is Pasadera still the worst without the categorization?  Man if so you have one hell of a golf life...

I found little to dislike about that course, in fact I enjoyed it quite a bit.  I know others hated it, but what the hell.  It is well-kept, provides many thrilling shots, and while it is sure no marvel of architecture, for those reasons it's closer to the best than the worst course I've played.  If anything it's cousin Tehama nearby might merit the "bad" tag, for many reasons you guys seem to ascribe to Pasadera...

To be Clintonesque, I guess this depends on what one's definition of "worst" is... See, I could care less what might have been and how much money was spent on any golf course, as I have little interest in that.  Sure, there are some courses we can wish were done differently, and some "crimes" are committed, but in those cases I just look elsewhere.

To me a truly bad course just provides few fun shots, no strategic or other interest, and is poorly kept.  For this dishonor I nominate the old Thunderbird GC, San Jose, CA (NLE).  Every hole was straight, there were no such thing as puttable greens, the pins were tree branches on some holes.  Now THAT was a bad golf course.

Funny thing is, I had a LOT of fun times there over the years...

So maybe NO golf course is truly bad in my world?

TH

[Nigel_Walton]

Relative to its potential? Old Head.

[THuckaby2]

Nigel:

Maybe you're right re Old Head being terrible relative to its potential... and others smarter than me have commented on architectural deficiencies... but man if that is a "bad" golf course than I want to see the good ones.  "Spectacular" does not do justice to the views, and there are enough thrilling shots to keep me happy without a doubt.  Yes, the cost is way too high and it's appalling to me how they treat the locals... But that is one fun golf course.

TH

[Chris_Clouser]

The worst I ever played was a course in Lapel, Indiana.  It was supposedly laid out by a guy that did a lot of courses in the area.  I don't even remember his name now.  But it is a nine holer.  The two par fives were back to back.  One was 623 yards long and literally if you went over the green you were OB.  I'm talking chain link fence just past the green.  The other par five was around the property line and was a dogleg of greater than 90 degrees.  You could only hit 8 iron off the tee or else you go into water and then are left with a long iron or wood into the green that was flat as a parking lot.  There were two par threes.  One was 100 yards to a green that literally was where they just lowered the mower blades.  The funny thing is it was probably the second best match I ever had in high school golf.  Add this to the fact that is next to a glass factory with two holes running right alongside two large pools of hazardous materials and you get some wonderful environs for a golf course.  The environmental wackos would have a field day on this place.

[A.G._Crockett]

Would this be similar to the answer to the question "What's the worst sex you ever had?"

I'm still looking for a golf course that would cause me to choose abstinence over one more round.

[Mike_Cirba]

Clearly, the worst course on the face of the earth (that I've played) by a reasonably accomplished architect would have to be the pretentiously-named Country Club of the Poconos at Big Ridge by Jim Fazio.  

I could list reason after reason, but the 360 yard 4th hole, which requires a 150 yard layup from the tee and a 200+ yard blind approach over 8 foot high wetland reeds would be reason enough.

The course itself travels 12 miles of cart paths, and probably covers 600 acres.  One could reasonably assume that on all of that acreage that Fazio would have been able to find a good golf hole or two, but you'd be mistaken.

Second place that comes to mind has to be Ron Fream's ShoreGate GC in southern NJ.  Somewhere, redanman has pictures that could prove much more than I could ever say in a thousand words.

Interestingly, Golf Magazine ranked ShoreGate in the "Top 10 you can Play" for 2002.  Good call.    

[Bob_Huntley]

   
                  "What's the worst sex you ever had?"

                    As Errol Flynn replied,"Fantastic."

[THuckaby2]

I am simpatico with Messrs. Crockett and Huntley on this.  Well said, gentlemen.

TH

[Mike_Cirba]

Well, at the risk of changing the subject too dramatically here, I can't say that I agree with the Huntley/Huckaby/Crockett threesome.  

I've had both bad sex and played bad golf courses.  Each is infinitely disappointing and one hopefully learns from both experiences.  

Which reminds me of my college roomate's old saw;

Sex without love is an empty experience, but as far as empty experiences go, it's one of the best.  

[THuckaby2]

Hmmmm.... interesting... I guess I'm just lucky in the sex and golf department, having not experienced what I'd call "bad" instances of either.

But then again, my quantity in both areas is likely a fraction in the wee hundredths of that of Mr. Cirba, so odds are he'd have had the bad experiences I haven't.  

 

TH

[Dave_Miller]

To the Treehouse:

Gentlemen, Mr. Huntley has hit the nail on the head again.  There are great courses, good courses and problably bad courses.
However, I have never met a golf course I didn't like.

Cheers,
Dave

Mike:
Guess it's now the Crockett, Huntley, Huckaby, Miller foursome. An August group if I do say so.

Cheers,
Dave

[Mike Benham]

But then again, my quantity in both areas is likely a fraction in the wee hundredths of that of Mr. Cirba, so odds are he'd have had the bad experiences I haven't.  

You mean Santa Clara wasn't a big party school with "Blondes Going Wild"?

[THuckaby2]

Mr. Benham, you of all people know that Santa Clara had its moments... but yes, they would not have fimed the Santa Clara women going to Cancun or anything.  Hey, my wife went there also - you and I have unique ability to criticize in this area.  

The point here, however, isn't my LACK of success in this area (although that is legendary) but rather the INCREDIBLE fortunes of one Michael Cirba.

 

[Mike_Cirba]

I think I heard my name mentioned;

It's all myth, exaggeration, and innuendo I assure you, despite these unfounded rumors to the contrary.  

Oh that it were so.  

I've had much greater success in golf.  

Besides, it lasts longer and you don't have to work as hard.

[THuckaby2]

Your legend remains secure in BOTH areas, Mike.  

TH

[Whit_C]

I was rained out of my afternoon of golf on a horrible golf course and I returned to the office to find my thread has careened hopelessly off-course.  In an attempt to get some honest opinions (or maybe just to waste a Friday afternoon)  l'll ditch the semantics and ask:  what is the most disappointing course you have played.  Define disappointing however you like.  

Mine is Flint Hills National a Tom Fazio design near Wichita Kansas that is rumored to have cost 19 million to build.  US Womens Am played there in 01 and Trans-Miss this coming summer. Fabulous clubhouse, great idea, boring golf course.

[THuckaby2]

Sorry for leading the careening, Whit.  Hopefully you do understand that my first post anyway is sincere... I just find that people can surely define "worst golf course" in many ways, as the participants here have proven.

"Disappointing" is a different angle... I'm gonna have to give this some thought, can't think of any right now.

TH

[A.G._Crockett]

That question I can answer.

The new Finley GC at UNC.  Just a tremendous disappointment, and to the tune of $8m.  An old, traditional layout with bad greens was replaced by T.Fazio with a layout that is completely unrecognizable, almost totally unmemorable, vastly more expensive, but has nice greens.  On balance, not a good trade-off.  The first time I played it, I wrote it off to expectations that were to high.  The second time and thereafter, I realized I just didn't like it.

[Mike Benham]

Disappointing - Spanish Bay

The piece of property had mucho potential ...

The "enviromental areas" are unfortunate ...

[Michael Dugger]

I find it quite frequent that we are less than thrilled with many of our modern courses.  I know there are numerous reasons that a project can go bad, so it is always sort of "harsh" to be ripping on a place, but, that said, when it comes to disappointment, I wasn't thrilled with Bob Cupp's effort at the Reserve.  I think it is now called the north or south, but I'm not sure which it was.  

I'm just getting so tired of the standard schtick.  Obviously shaped, neat clean bunker lines, lots of "movement".  I'd find more interest in one well place mound fronting a green than all the other numerous things we see now days.  Clever gimmicks like one HUGE propeller shaped green that serves three different holes adorn the Cupp course.  One par three on the back has such deep drainage basins next to the green you'd swear the green is 15 feet above your head.  On one hole my friend played to the wrong green.  What's really a bummer is that before finding out where the real green was, I thought it was the best hole on the course!  

But I totally agree with the notion that even bad golf is better than no golf.  The conditioning at the Reserve is wonderful, not a complaint in the world.  But to me it is too much like Pumpkin Ridge.  Same template, done again.  It's hard to believe, but I think sometimes too much $$$ and too much space can ruin things.  And, needless to say, the Augusta Nat'l syndrome, and those players who don't give two hoots about aesthetics, provided the placement of hazards is strategic in nature, spoil things for me.  Too many standards.  Give me more par 67's.  Let some grass turn brown.  Let some bunker edges break down a little.  Things aren't NATURALLY that green.    

[Bob_Huntley]

Mike Cirba.

I do hope the bad episodes were not performed solo!

No matter what, for one brief shining moment, I loved them all.

Now, back to shitty golf courses. For the money spent amidst considerable beauty, no contest, Tehama.  

[Dan Grossman]

To hear Tehema, Old Head, Spanish Bay, etc. mentioned on this thread is absurd.  I played Lincoln Park yesterday (pretty bad) and it wasn't even close to the worst golf course ever.

Check out any number of nine hole golf courses in Northwest Ohio.  Baird's Wayside is one that comes to mind.  It costs $8 to play and the owner just routed the course through a field.  The greens are so shaggy it is easier to chip when you are on the green.

Mike Cirba - Have you ever played Gettysburg CC?  That might be the worst course I have ever played in Pennsylvania.  To quote a friend, "Abe Lincoln could have designed a better course than this."  

Other Central PA courses - Liberty Valley (in Danville) and White Deer (in Williamsport, I think).  White Deer is funny, because it is a 36 hole facility containing TWO of the worst courses ever.

[THuckaby2]

Dan:

Check my take on this... I'm with you... none of those courses could be called bad in my book.  Even Tehama, which is definitely wretched, I still had fun at.... I just mentioned that myself to say that if Rich (and others) hated Pasadera, they'd REALLY hate Tehama.  It just takes to a further degree all the excesses those guys complained about re Pasadera, that's all.  It also does have some horrible nearly unplayable golf holes, mainly due to the VERY severe terrain... But in my book it has a few good ones also, so I'll never call it "bad."

I too have played many rounds at Lincoln Park, and I'd never call that "bad".  Too weird, too fun, too beautiful views.  Yes, conditions were often horrid, but you expected that going in.

Now the one I mentioned - the NLE Thunderbird which was in San Jose, near where 101 hits 280, well... that's as close as I'll ever get to calling a course "bad."  But as I say, I had a lot of good times there also.... so... perhaps "bad" doesn't exist in my world.

Everything is relative anyway and I'd never call anyone a golf "snob".  We all have our own realities.  Look at it this way - a Cypress Point member playing 95% of his golf there has every right to call just about every course he plays for the remaining 5% bad.  It's just a matter of perspective.

TH

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