[Tim Gavrich]

Forgive me if this is a much bantered-about and ballyhooed topic but...

it would appear that some great architectural features have evolved or "happened" by accident.  I cite as my prime example the green complexes at Pinehurst No.2.  We all know that Donny Ross didn't plan them that way, but most would agree that the decades of topdressing have resulted in something better than what Mr. Ross envisioned.  What are some other great architectural features that have come about by accident or by apathy.

I wouldn't put The Old Course in this category necessarily, because its greatness has evolved more out of the original discovery and layout of the original holes.

So what say ye, ye wise (wo)men of the craft (and their critics)?

[James Bennett]

Tim

Interesting question.

I recall responding to a thread on 'genius or happenstance' perhaps two or three years ago.  I'll check the search engine and see what comes up.

James B

Edit - it was a thread started by Sulli on course routings - genius or happenstance.  The thread link is attached

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=17871;start=msg316317#msg316317

[TEPaul]

I wouldn't call it a question of greatness or a result of accident--perhaps a result of apathy and the extremely slow degree of gradualness, but the vertical dimension on many architectural features certainly does increase over time while the dimensions of length and width of architectural features always seems to decrease over time.

Obviously the primary reasons for this is general maintenance practices, golfer interaction with golf courses and the nature of the maturation of turf and such.

[David Stamm]

 We all know that Donny Ross didn't plan them that way, but most would agree that the decades of topdressing have resulted in something better than what Mr. Ross envisioned.  

Tim, how do we know if it turned out better? Compared to what? If was better than what Ross envisioned, why was he preparing to redo the greens prior to his death?

[Tim Gavrich]

David--

I don't suppose we know for certain--fair enough.  All I can say for sure is that they're 18 of the most challengingly, confoundingly excellent green complexes I've had the fortune to traverse in my--short, though thankfully fairly varied--golfing career.

If I recall correctly, I read that Ross offered to change them sometime in the 40s, but the owner refused, arguing that they'd ended up fine.  It would appear that the question now becomes the following: how much better could they have ended up from today's perspective if Ross had had the chance to overhaul them back in the day?  No one knows the answer, obviously, but I personally am not sure they'd be better today if he'd been allowed to change them as drastically as it seemed he wanted to.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Tim

No intent here to undercut your question, but according to Rich Mandell in his book on Pinehurst the greens on #2 are not all that different from Ross's 1930s-era design.  According to Mandell, the "top-dressing" story is more myth than reality.

Mark

[Tim Gavrich]

Yikes, Mark, my world's been turned upside down!  I don't know what to believe anymore!

But that's okay.  Luckily, the question still stands.

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