[gookin]

Thanks to all for your input. Our course will always enjoy a substantial number of trees. Our tree population today numbers between 3,000 and 3,500 depending on how you want to include the perimeter. The potential removals for the 2008 Plan total less than 40. Once we get finished discussing them with all the interested parties it will likely be less. Agronomics is the #1 reason for removal and cooridors of play being a close second. We want to preserve the width of our fairways that create all those interesting angles of play available to our great green complexes. As you might imagine, the major objection to tree removal seems to be from players who desire to play the game in quiet isolation, removed from the view of the surrounding holes and golfers. The second most common objection is the desire for trees to narrow the fairways to make shots more difficult at the expense of strategic choice. While everyone is entitled to their opinion, I can find no evidence that these opinions are supported by the design philosophies of McDonald or Raynor. Unfortunately, some just don't care about Seth Raynor. What makes it tough is that these members love our course and our Club as much as I do. In the end, we will try to educate and make the best decsion for the most members. In the end, a club where everyone gets along is still more important than the Tree Program.

Thanks again for your help. In the end, Fox Chapel  will always have plenty of shady spots to beat the heat on those hot western pa summer days.

[Mike McGuire]

David -

It might sound better if you call it a "tree management program."

Also instead of actual numbers you might use terms like "less than 2% of the trees"  

[Bill Brightly]

David,

Is this the first year of your tree program?

[Mark_Fine]

David,
I thought is was interesting how you ended your last post.  You said:

"In the end, Fox Chapel will always have plenty of shady spots to beat the heat on those hot western pa summer days."

If you studied Oakmont you would note in old photos that Fownes and Loeffler purposely planted a few trees near tees for shade on those hot summer days.  These trees were part of the design intent of the original architects.  

Again, hope all goes well at Fox Chapel.
Mark

[wsmorrison]

The Library Company of Philadelphia (founded by Benjamin Franklin in 1731) has a collection of aerial photographs of some significant golf courses including Oakmont.  While they are not dated, there are cars which indicate the photographs are from the late 1920s or early 1930s.  These photos show that there were very few trees on the golf course.  There were a few trees by the tee on the 1st hole, 2 trees each by the 8th and 12th tees and 1 tree by the 16th tee.

When do you suppose Fownes (probably William (d. 1950) and not Henry (d. 1935)) and Loeffler (d. 1948) planted trees by the tees?

[TEPaul]

David:

As usual I admire the way you (and Fox Chapel CC) go about soliciting opinion and research and dealing with the club's membership in what's planned and done on the golf course.

Interestingly, of all the clubs and projects that I'm aware of the two that do this best (including the green chairmen and green committees) are two Macdonald/Raynor courses--The Creek Club and Fox Chapel CC.

There're a lot of little techniques, buzzwords, quotations, and basic logic and commonsense to use on the memberships of clubs and you seem to be aware of most of them that serve the purpose of being both educational and non-adverserial.

On the subject of trees around tees for the purpose of shade it seems like a number of the old architects both mentioned or implied the benefit of this. Those include Ross, Flynn and Tillinghast.

My golf course, Gulph Mills GC, was an old farm with few original trees but two sycamores were planted on either side of every tee originally and probably on the recommendation of Ross.

Those tee box sycamores are nearly 100 years old now and probably a third of them remain. To my knowledge we have only purposely taken down one of them over the years because it simply created too much shade on the previous green.

[mike_malone]

 Every time I read those Flynn quotes and then look at the history of trees on Rolling Green I think we have a near perfect example of his principles. He used the existing trees for several holes and the early tree plantings are consistent with his ideas about beauty, separation, and shade. I don't see his use of the word "punish" and at Rolling Green they did not punish bad hits with the early tree work.

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