[Ryan Farrow]

I shot a 45 on the back 9 at Oakmont and I'm an 18 handicap when  Not to mention the greens were rolling faster than they were during the open. I think Tiger would loose that bet.

Open hole locations? Open rough? Come on Ryan...  

Kyle 12,15,17 had the graduated open rough. It wasn't a problem anyways since I was only in the rough 2-3 times. Plus The times I was It was still in that first cut. Its not my fault I hit the ball in the fairway? There are not many hole locations at Oakmont to begin with plus I was below the hole 90% of the time. Back tees? The tee markers don't even touch the open tees most days, why would I play from them? Even if I did the fairways are so firm another 200-300 yards is not that big of a difference.

[M. Shea Sweeney]

A friend of mine is an assistant at Oakmont--
I have not played Oakmont yet, and he hasn't played Bethpage Black.(Bethpage State Park was my affliation for many years)
Both are courses which remain in "Open conditions" year round.

We both play at the same level.

I bet him he would not break 90 his first time out at the Black, and he bet me he I would not break 90 my first go at Oakmont. We'll see.

So whatever that means...

[Jim Nugent]

I shot a 45 on the back 9 at Oakmont and I'm an 18 handicap when  Not to mention the greens were rolling faster than they were during the open. I think Tiger would loose that bet.

Open hole locations? Open rough? Come on Ryan...  

And Open tees, i.e. the tips?  

Several GCA'ers played Oakmont on that special deal they offered a little while ago.  If I recall, they all scored higher than their handicaps.  And that was from the 6400 yard tees -- way, way shorter than during the Open.  

I like Tiger's bet.  

[Phil_the_Author]

Mike the difference for your bet is that Oakmont runs their greens at Open speed or faster at all times whereas Bethpage Black's do not. They are routinely 9+ whereas during the Open they were 14 & on some greens 15+.

[Dan King]

I would think a 10 handicap, whose sole objective was to break 100, should be able to do it. To break 100, you need to play for bogey as if it is par and then beat your handicap by one. The problem is most 10 handicappers would never think to try and play bogey golf, thinking they need to try and reach greens in regulation. When faced with a 450 yards par 4, with deep rough off the fairway, hitting three 7- or 8-irons would work better than driver, three wood.

I think the hardest thing for the 10 handicapper would be dealing with green speeds he has no experience on. The celebrities might be better able to handle this than the average 10 handicapper.  

I think most 10 handicappers would get in trouble because they are trying to shoot the lowest possible score, rather than trying to break 100. I'd like to see the 10 handicapper out there with a putter, couple wedges, 9-iron, 8-iron, 7-iron and 6-iron, and nothing else. I think his chances would be better with this than 14 clubs.

I haven't played Torrey since the changes. I'm trying to think if there is anywhere that you might actually need something greater than a 6-iron. I'm thinking maybe on the 6th or 13th hole it might be tough for a 10-handicapper to reach the fairway from the back tees with a 6-iron.
 
Cheers,
Grandan King

The poetic temperament is the worst for golf. It dreams of brilliant drives, iron shots laid dead, and long putts holed, while in real golf success waits for him who takes care of the foozles and leaves the fine shots to take care of themselves.
  --Sir Walter Simpson  (The Art of Golf)

[J_ Crisham]

Joel, I thought it interesting that you put the Olympic Club in the same league as RCD. I've played both and with just a breath of wind RCD is at least 3-5 strokes harder. Don't misunderstand me OLY is a hell of a course but the facts : only 1 fairway bunker(which Hogan said didn't come into play, just aim to the right),if you have a loose shot you can at least find it-at RCD its called going back to the tee because it will be in thicker shit than you can imagine. Other than playing at Carnoustie I can't think of another course that's even in the same league of difficulty. If a regular from RCD played an USOPEN venue I'd put my $on that horse.

[Ryan Farrow]

I would think a 10 handicap, whose sole objective was to break 100, should be able to do it. To break 100, you need to play for bogey as if it is par and then beat your handicap by one. The problem is most 10 handicappers would never think to try and play bogey golf, thinking they need to try and reach greens in regulation. When faced with a 450 yards par 4, with deep rough off the fairway, hitting three 7- or 8-irons would work better than driver, three wood.

I think the hardest thing for the 10 handicapper would be dealing with green speeds he has no experience on. The celebrities might be better able to handle this than the average 10 handicapper.  

I think most 10 handicappers would get in trouble because they are trying to shoot the lowest possible score, rather than trying to break 100. I'd like to see the 10 handicapper out there with a putter, couple wedges, 9-iron, 8-iron, 7-iron and 6-iron, and nothing else. I think his chances would be better with this than 14 clubs.

I haven't played Torrey since the changes. I'm trying to think if there is anywhere that you might actually need something greater than a 6-iron. I'm thinking maybe on the 6th or 13th hole it might be tough for a 10-handicapper to reach the fairway from the back tees with a 6-iron.
 
Cheers,
Grandan King

The poetic temperament is the worst for golf. It dreams of brilliant drives, iron shots laid dead, and long putts holed, while in real golf success waits for him who takes care of the foozles and leaves the fine shots to take care of themselves.
  --Sir Walter Simpson  (The Art of Golf)

Dan, well said.

[Tom_Doak]

Dan:

I agree with your analysis.  If the 10-handicapper can hit it halfway straight and has a good caddie reading his putts, he might be able to get around in less than 100.  I'm a 10-handicap and I'm pretty sure I could do it, though perhaps less than 50% of the time.

Then again, if the rough is like Winged Foot in '74 or 2006, he might miss 4 fairways with the 6-iron off the tee and make a double-digit score on two of those holes, which would severely impair the odds of breaking 100.

If they just hit driver off every tee, I'm thinking the same as Jeff W. -- 110 or 115.

[Michael Christensen]

a 10 capper wouldn't play from the back tees at Oakmont or Torrey....I am a rusty 8 and I would bet my life savings that I would break 100 on either course.......the faster the greens, the better....my one round at Oakmont was an 89 and I made no putts all day...someone would have to pay me to play Torrey...no interest in that dog track...now RSFGC...we are talking!

Dan is right on......if breaking a 100 was the goal, driver would be left in the trunk.

[Tim Bert]

I agree with Dan's analysis as well, but I hope the producers found some crazy dude that it trying to go low.  The folks who tune in (and those that pay to advertise during the breaks) don't want to see 3 7-irons.

[Phil Benedict]

I think GCA should lobby to have Tom Doak in the foursome.  Maybe he's no Danny Gans but he qualifies as a celebrity in some quarters.  He's got the right handicap and would be better at conveying the experience than anyone I can imagine.

[John Kavanaugh]

I think GCA should lobby to have Tom Doak in the foursome.  Maybe he's no Danny Gans but he qualifies as a celebrity in some quarters.  He's got the right handicap and would be better at conveying the experience than anyone I can imagine.

Please, the last thing anyone wants is some critic saying what is wrong with the course right before the Open.  It is going to get rough around here this June as we have to listen to all the intellectuarationalization about how Torrey is a "waste".

[Phil Benedict]

John,

I think you've used the longest word I've ever seen in your last post.

[Tom_Doak]

John:

Don't worry; there's no way in hell I am playing in a made-for-TV event at Torrey Pines.

[jeffwarne]

I'm hearing anecdotal stories of guys who easily broke 100.
Not always from the back tees, certainly not under Open conditions, although Oakmont is there on a daily basis.

Not always so easy to hit 3 7 irons in a row.
And after laying up, you now have to hit a good pitch,
All is however, within the ability level of a 10 hdcp of course.
let's see him do it after a couple months of thinking about it and a sleepless night.

The hardest tournaments are when you're trying to shoot a known #, make a cut, qualify ,PGA Playing ability test etc.
In other words, do it when it counts-when every four footer is hard, but so is the fear of the next one if you miss.
To say nothing of the world watching.

you guys ever seen the club championship qualifier?
That's on a familiar course ,not 7600 yards and not with that kind've rough and narrow fairways.

No chance....at all for a 10 from an average course.

[jeffwarne]

Better yet, put Rees in the group with Doak.
Rees was an eight last I checked,but with Doak in the group he's gonna need the extra two shots.
Now what's Mike Terico's handicap?

[J_ Crisham]

Could this be the Big Break Torrey Pines? All we need is Tommy 2 Gloves!

[Matt_Cohn]

Typical hole, 470, par-4 for an 18-handicapper:

1. Drive 225 into the rough.
2. Hack into fairway <100 yards
3. Miss green from 150 into rough or bunker.
4. Hack from rough or bunker onto (?) green.
5. Two or three putt = 6 or 7.

Bad hole, 470, par-4 for an 18-handicapper:

1. Drive 200 into rough/trees.
2. Recovery fails to find fairway, <100 yards.
3. Hack into fairway, maybe, <100 yards.
4. Miss green from 100-150 yards.
5. Duff from rough or bunker.
6. Recover to on or near green.
7. Three shots to get down = 9. This will happen at least a two or three times in 14 long holes.

My prediction is that short game and putting will be the truly difficult part of this adventure. I think a true 18 handicapper might average >4 shots to get in from rough or sand around the greens.

[jeffwarne]

Matt,
18 handicap-noooooooooooooooo chance.

10 handicap-very little chance

[K. Krahenbuhl]

Could this be the Big Break Torrey Pines? All we need is Tommy 2 Gloves!

At his current pace he will be playing in the Open.

[J_ Crisham]

Possibly, But the weekend would surprise me. Any pictures to post of RCD? I recall the Illini plus 4s being donned for the sacred occasion of our 1st visit. As I recall you were "studying" however loosely for a sociology final.

[Joel_Stewart]

Joel, I thought it interesting that you put the Olympic Club in the same league as RCD. I've played both and with just a breath of wind RCD is at least 3-5 strokes harder.

Really picky.  RCD is ranked #7 in the world and Olympic #45.  I'm sure you didn't play Olympic under US Open conditions.  I don't doubt that RCD is both better and harder than Olympic.

I played Olympic in 1998 the Thursday before the Open (7 days before the opening round) and didn't make a par until #8.  I lost 3 or 4 balls within the first 7 holes by just hitting it a few feet off the fairway.  My handicap at the time was around a 3.  

With the length of Torrey Pines, I probably would side with Tiger on the bet.  The problem is by the 10th hole, nobody is going to have any fun and nobody is going to be funny.  The show will be absurd.

[Matt_Cohn]

Joel, you bring up a good point.

Playing a course under a true U.S. Open setup is virtually impossible without spotters. I assume they'll have plenty of those on hand. Even pro's would lose a couple of balls a round playing alone without spotters.

[Voytek Wilczak]

This special will hold my attention for about 5 minutes.

This is a moribound attempt to jack up the ratings.

Pathetic.

[PThomas]

Though that said I did recently read the celebs edition of Golf for Woman with Angie Everhart on the cover.

that was a great issue, wasn't it Sam?

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