Opinions Please

[David_Elvins]

Is this good architecture or bad architecture?  Or neither?  Why?  Will be interested to hear what people think.

[Tony Ristola]

Rub of the green.
Don't hit it there.

Bunker looks beautiful to me.
Placement? Looks like there is a lot of room left.

[RichMacafee]

That's not architecture really is it? More a conditioning/veg management issue.

I love the look of some of the small bushes and grasses that frame bunkers on some holes - so I don't have a problem with the look, but they probably should be on the top lip of the bunker, not in the hazard.

[David_Elvins]

Bunker looks beautiful to me.
Placement? Looks like there is a lot of room left.

Sorry, Tony, I should have provided a wider context.  The bunker is the left bunker in the photo below.  bushes are on the greenside face.  Would be interest to know whether that changes anything.

[Rich Goodale]

My vote is for "Bad."  Completely "penal"--carry it onto the green or spend 5 minutes trying to find your ball in the unkempt area and then walk back 150+ yards to hit another ball.  You might as well put a moat into that space between the top of the bunker and the green.

Yes, everybody has to play the shot, and yes, it is a HAZARD, but to me it seems like a profligate waste of some very valuable (GCA wise) greenside space.

Looks like some famous courses we know, but without the bunker wool......

[David_Elvins]

That's not architecture really is it? More a conditioning/veg management issue.

Rich,
I think vegetation management is part of architecture.  Do you agree?  

[James Bennett]

David

those bushes at 25 feet from the pin are challenging.  Do you have to play over them, or is there an alternate line of play?  That is, are the bushes 'penal' or 'strategic' in play?

Do you have a wider picture of the hole?

James B

[James Bennett]

Ah, the extra pic has been posted whilst I was posting  

I recognize that hole - my shots have not been good enough to get in that bunker face - both times shorter and to the right.

Actually Rich has some of the playing characteristics of that hole down pat - there is a lot of looking for balls short and through the green.  I probably need to play from a more forward tee.

[Andrew Summerell]

I would compare them unfavourably to the growth around many heathland bunkers that work well & don’t look out of place.

That face is quite soft &, with the backdrop of larger bushes & trees, the growth around the bunkers look extremely unnatural.

Would anybody leave or plant those bushes & grasses there if the bunker wasn't there?

[Jamey Bryan]

I'm conflicted here.  I love the "look" of the bunker, but don't think one should face losing a ball in scrub 20-30 feet from the hole (especially slightly short) on a par 3.

I don't know the hole; I'd have less of a problem with it if it's a shortish one shotter-- <150 yards or so.  I'd really like the hazard if it were an inside flanking bunker on a dogleg par 5.

Jamey

[David_Elvins]

I don't know the hole; I'd have less of a problem with it if it's a shortish one shotter-- <150 yards or so.  

Jamey,
FYI, it plays about 187 (edit: yards) slightly uphill form the tips.  THe next tee is about 143.

Here is an interesting "grow in" photo from the club website.

[Rich Goodale]

Thanks for the other pictures, David.  They confirm my opinion that the RH bunker diminishes the golf hole if capped with random and grarly vegetation.  Over the top, as they say here iin Old Blighty.

PS--is the length of the carry 187 yards, or meters, or cubits or ells, or what?

[Tony Ristola]

Upon further inspection... the call stands.

[Philippe Binette]

Just play away from the hazard if you're too scared of it...
to me, in a bunker, I don't mind if there's a 5% chance that you're in deep trouble, let's face it, that lie happen to somebody once every.... 20 rounds, hell that's golf...

for real, if it was a pond 25 feet from the pin (which mean that 100% chance of deep trouble) like thousands of golf holes, nobody would complain...


and just a question? what happen next?

I love it when people dissect a golf course detail by detail trying to pretend that this is bad architecture, this is good architecture and so on... bad maintenance...

and then they go to a flat, no character, parkland maintain course and say how boring and ugly the course is

[Jeff_Brauer]

Room for that kind of bunker in the wide world of golf and it does look beautious.  Its probably not right for everywhere but it should have been built somewhere.

What other opinions would you like to hear?  Global warming? Meaning of Life?  Who started the  Mike Young Society?

[Tony Ristola]

for real, if it was a pond 25 feet from the pin (which mean that 100% chance of deep trouble) like thousands of golf holes, nobody would complain...

Philippe: Bingo.

[Jeff_Brauer]

for real, if it was a pond 25 feet from the pin (which mean that 100% chance of deep trouble) like thousands of golf holes, nobody would complain...

Philippe: Bingo.

I think the real reason the pond would be deemed more acceptable is that while it costs the golfer a stroke and a golf ball, the course operator doesn't have to worry about him taking twenty minutes to get out of the bunker and slow down play......

[Mike Hendren]

The photographs are insightful.  Based upon the second photo (reply #3) it appeared that the player was punished for failing to stratigically carry the bunker to access a tucked pin (I assumed the approach was from the right).  In that case I say okay.

In fact the third photograph (reply #10) oriented from the tee shows that the player is being punished because he hit a poor shot that was short and right, the default result for us right-handed hackers.  In that case it's merely kicking the man while he's down.  Or if you will, eye-candy at the expense of the bogey man.

Mike

[John Kavanaugh]

The architect should cut off his ear and die poor.  I'm getting a little sick of out of focus bowls of fruit pretending to be bunkers.  The architect is not more important than the golfer.

[Jeff_Brauer]

JK, couldn't agree more.  We are mere public servants!

[archie_struthers]

 


I like it!

rjs

[Jeff_Brauer]

Actually, I think  in relooking at the photo, that providing a moving arrow in the sky to help golfers find their balls in that bunker kind of takes away the purpose of the hazard, no?

How do they do that?

[W.H. Cosgrove]

While this may appear to be an "inconvenient lie" the superintendent is clearly doing something about the carbon footprint of the course.  

While the golfer may have a tough time getting out those bushes, the plants are doing their part for global warming.  I say let em stay and save Florida from rising sea levels.

[Jeff_Brauer]

BTW,

I have always felt that the big picture issue represented by such a hazard is this - do such hazards discourage bold play right at the pin by too many players?  

That, as they say, is the question, because aiming at the pin is far more fun than aiming to miss in the left fringe.....it just is.  Now, in the context of the course, if this is one of a few similar hazards, the paradox would be delightful change of pace.  (or as the Scottish caddies would say "change of piss" Also, the amount of bail out areas left would affect it.

For most golfers on most courses, it probably is too severe, but at the same time, the fact that it is severe and different makes it somewhat special.

[Philippe Binette]

Listen you all australian complainer...

18 inches of snow just fell in Montreal over the last two days... I'll take your horrible lie in that bunker with the biggest smile in my face right now...

do you want to trade places  

by the all the pictures are from the same hole