Pacific Dunes favorite holes

[Patrick_Mucci]

What was your favorite Par 3, Par 4 and Par 5 at Pacific Dunes and why ?


what direction was the wind blowing and at what velocity when you played there ?

[ian]

3- 11th, wind would not be a factor in that decision. Its the setting.

4 6th, was playing downwind, but I realy like Tom's version of the 9th at Cypress Point. Played three times and loved the tee shot decision.

5 3rd, seemed like the perfect setting to introduce you to the ocean, an outstanding green site, and fun to play.

There are many great holes and those are my choices strictly because of the fun factor for each. If you asked me to do the same at bandon, I would take me a lot longer to figure it out.

[billb]

Wind was blowing very hard from the south. At times it was a 6 or 7 club wind if there is such a thing.

Par 3 - #11
Awesome setting, and short par 3s are cool.
With that much wind behind me, I had to float a pitching wedge up over the fronting bunker and land it soft to keep it on the green. That is one of the neat things about wind golf...you have to go from hitting low penetrating draws to hitting high soft floaty shots.

Par 4 - #13
The prettiest hole on the course IMHO. The bunker complexes on the right side are so natural....I am wondering if Tom D. and his crew even touched these dunes?

Par 5 - #18  
Pretty hole in April, would love to play it with the flowers on the hillsides in bloom. The bunkers have the Royal County Down wispy look.
575 yards into all that wind, played about 750. Driver, 5 iron, 4 iron, all hit low and solid, was still 80 yards short! The hole was so strategic....it was all about avoiding the nasty looking bunkers all over the place. The guy I was playing with was driving to hit drivers off the deck at the suggestion of his caddy, it didnt work, he made a big number. My scorecard said bogey but that was one of the best "pars" I have ever made!

[ed_getka]

Par 3 #5, followed by #11.

Par 4 #6 So many decisions to make on both shots, followed closely by #7.

Par 5 #15 I love the green complex.

Wind from the north. 3-4 clubs.

[Michael Dugger]

The variety of answers here is a testament to the greatness of this golf course.

ONE SHOT HOLE:  I love the 17th.  Longish shot over a lot of trouble.  Redan characteristics.  I think the huge sand bluff backdrop is AWESome


TWO SHOT HOLE: 7th.  This hole is tough.  The bunker work is phenomenal.  I love the picture below.



THREE SHOT HOLE:  Either the 15th or the 18th.  

[Matthew Schulte]

Par 3
South Wind #5: What a greensite, very demanding iron into the wind.
North Wind #11: People keep saying great setting, it is that, however, the bunkering looks as though it had been there forever.  I have a Henebry photo of #6 on Bandon taken from the high dune looking to the north.  The area that is now #11 Pacific looked nothing like it does.  That bunkering work is a testiment to how good the shapers are that work with Tom.

Par 4
#4 & #13 would be the obvious choices, however I absolutely love #7.  Again, sensational bunkering.  That is a demanding second shot regardless of wind direction or velocity.  

Par 5
#3 plays so very different from Spring to Summer.   In the Spring it is reachable, yet hard to hold.  In the summer winds, it is a brute.  I am amazed at how many people actually challenge the right side of this green.  In 8 rounds, only once has everyone in my group managed to avoid the greenside bunker.

[Doug Wright]

Patrick,

I've played the course in both N and S winds.

Par 3--#5. A great greensite and a decent hole either with or vs the wind.

Par 4--#6. I love the options off the tee and on the second shot, the massive bunker greenside left (which I drove into on purpose Naccarato-like during one round for the joy of trying to escape   ) and the narrow hilltop green.

Par 5--#3. Terrific bunkering throughout, especially greenside right.

On reflection, gotta say I really like the first seven holes a whole lot!

All The Best,

[John_D._Bernhardt]

Par 4's 6,7, 8 and 13 to me. I love the green complex at 8.
Par 3's 10,11
Par 5's 3

[John_D._Bernhardt]

I have also played both courses in both winds. I love a lot of holes. Oddly I find the blind 2nd shot at 1 to be similiar to my complaint about 1 at Bandon. The first at Bandon is a great hole just not a great first hole on a resort course. I do not think blind shots are best set in the first hole or two. It slows play down to average to high handicappers. I hate to say it but I love every hole at Pacific except 5 & 16. I actually enjoyed it more in the winter wind. I do not like the risk reward nature of it in the summer wind. I gave Tom a little grief about 5 in the summer wind during construction. I loved the hole in the winter wind. I am not real high on it in a 4 to 6 club summer wind.

[JohnV]

Par 3: #11, although 17 is a close second to me.  I really love short par 3s with lots of interest, which is something that Bandon Dunes definitely is lacking.

Par 4: #13 with #6 being second.  What a great hole 13 is even if it should be a par 5 in the summer wind.

Par 5: #18 The big bunker on the left of the tee and the blind second are great.  #3 would be my second choice.

Interesting that 2 of my three favorites are right on the coast at Pacific, while the holes along the coast at Bandon are not among my favorites.

[Bill_McBride]

Played three rounds in the summer (north) winds in August 2001.  Doesn't seem possible it was that long ago.   Four to five club wind.  Would like to have played in the south wind but didn't happen.

Favorite par 3 -- #5.  The pin was in the rear half and four club wind from behind.  I could see that no shot onto the green would hold, so hit an 8-iron (I think) which bounced maybe 20 yards short, on the left side.  Took a neat couple of bounces and rolled right up close to the hole!
Second favorite was #11, the wind was so strong I hit knockdown 4-iron at 140 yds!  One of the guys above mentions hitting wedge downwind and tough to hold.  That is the beauty of Pacific Dunes.

Favorite par 4 -- this is harder.  I would love to play #6 in the south wind.  # 7 was probably my favorite (loved #4 as well), all that hummocky ground was fun although it did run my second into the left front bunker.  #8 had a lot of great slope on the far right.

Favorite par 5 -- # 3 into the wind, what a beauty.  As someone mentioned above, #13 was pretty much a par 5 into that wind!

Not sure why Tiger Bernhardt above disses #16, he drove the green one of the three opportunities, and was close every other time!

[John_D._Bernhardt]

Bill, I have trouble with 16 because i feel the risk reward is not there. I hit driver and 3 woods with you that trip. I am not a big hitter either. The problem is the amount of mounds in the fairway were such that not going for the green was outweighed by going for it without much thought. There is not any landing area for a conservative shot off the tee. I wish there was an obvious option for the green is well guarded and perfect for a drivable par 4. The problem is the tee shot and lack of options.

[Patrick_Mucci]

John Bernhardt,

I thought that you could hit driver, 3-wood, or irons to certain risk/reward target areas.  Leaving you with different shots into a fairly narrow green.

I chose driver since I was driving it well all day.
But, would hit a 4-iron if I didn't have confidence in my driver.

[TEPaul]

John Bernhardt and Pat Mucci:

On #16 obviously driving the green must be an option but should probably not be considered a central one for the vast majority of golfers. And consequently that really isn't a primary strategic option that the hole should be conceived around. The vast majority of golfers is frankly more important when considering all the options of that or any hole and how all the options meld to create the hole's overall strategies.

I agree that the rolls and undulations in the primary landing area are pretty severe (they're natural btw). Ran Morrissett made a remark and recommendation while there about that tee shot which, in my opinion, is really valid and should be considered.

That is to clear out and put fairway area to the left of the present fairway all the way out to where that irrigation box now is. The ground over there appears somewhat less undulating but also appears quite narrow (in its orientation from the tee) and confined and probably requiring of a certain amount of accuracy to get to without running into real trouble to the left or long of it. Reaching that area is shorter off the tee but also puts the golfer directly inline with the orientation of the green!

If the feeback over a certain amount of time is the middle of the fairway is too undulating to be generally considered a reasonable option leaving trying to drive over the corner hazard to the green the next best option, the tee shot options are lacking a certain amount of balance in my book (and obviously in Ran's).

Extending fairway into that left side all the way to the irrigation box is a good somewhat more conservative option that creates an interesting "reverse dogleg" play that should be added to that hole's tee shot. It creates another option (always a good thing) which balances well off the risks of the other two or so options that've already been mentioned.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I feel the mounding while natural is so severe that to play the normal 200 to 220 shot off the tee there creates the same risk that going for the green does. You have to go back to a 160 shot off the tee to find semi level ground or a landing area. I will get my strokesaver to get the yardage right for this discusssion. The jest of my concern here is the risk is similiar all the way from about 180 to 300 plus off the tee. The green is well guarded too, so any shot over 100 yards has a good deal of risk. I say the hole screams go for it and there are not any better options in the downwind setting.

[THuckaby2]

Concur with Tiger here re #16.  In the summer wind there is just absolutely no reason NOT to go for the green, as just as he says the layup is way too far back - and difficult to hold given the firm downwind conditions - such that that shot is just as difficult as going for it anyway!  Also, the rough to the right and short of the green is not prohibitive... I found this out after a poor layup attempt in my first playing, and thereafter it was bombs away no matter what.

Yes, create that strip to the left that TEP describes and it changes things... making the rough short right more penal would also do this, but I'm not sure that's a good idea... golfer after golfer searching for lost balls can't be a good thing.

This hole must play really well in the winter wind... turn things around and the choices become more.  But summer wind, Tiger's right there really is no choice, and although it makes for a very fun, very dramatic shot as you hit and watch and hope for the ball to reappear past the hummocks, well... no options makes it less than the great hole it might otherwise be.

TH

[ForkaB]

My memory of short right on 16 is that the area was a bit boggy and could have benefitted by a Raynorian bunker (which would also heighten the challenge of going for a long right pin).  Loved the fairway (in the one time I managed to hit it....).

[THuckaby2]

Rich:

When I was there (August 2001), short right was a bit boggy, but not boggy enough - not enough to create any fear for being in there, anyway.  Balls were easily findable and more important, easily playable.  I'm with you - put a Raynorian bunker there (or hell, even a Mackenzian one!) and it would cause one to think twice in the summer wind.  

BTW, the "fire away" with little penalty, combined with the driveable green, was absolutely LOVED by my playing partners then, and I can't say I minded the success I had there also... still, no options is never a good thing.

TH

[Dan Grossman]

Having playing PD about 5 times, but only in the winter wind, it is interesting to see this discussion.

During the winter wind, #16 is a fun hole, but only because of the second shot.  I don't remember having any problems with the undulating fairway, but the second shot is difficult into the wind.  It is actually easier to be on the right side of the fairway than the left, IMO.  On the right side of the fairway, you just have to control your distance into the wind (just get the ball on the green and short of the back bunker).  On the left side, it is easy to hit a leaker that ends up down the hillside on the right side of the green.



#6 is my favorite hole during the winter wind.  I always have a hard time deciding what do hit on that hole because I tend to play a high hook.    The perfect line is over the bunker on the right, but if you miss the shot, you can end up in the bunker and dead.  If you come over the shot, you will end up in the left rough, which is dead (downwind).  The left part of the fairway is dead too.  Eventhough it is a drivable par 4, I'm all twisted up by the time I get the tee.  

What is the hole like into the wind?  I imagine that as long as you are in the fairway somewhere, you are able to stop the ball on the green by hitting it high and soft.  

Here is the hole picture so you can see what I am talking about.

[THuckaby2]

Great stuff, Dan.  This is an example of what makes discussions about both courses at Bandon so intriguing - the opposite nature of the summer and winter wind.  I had speculated above that 16 on PD would play very well into the wind (ie winter wind) and I am gladdened you confirm this... Oh yes, a second shot of any length into the wind would be a damn tough one, given the angle and lack of depth of the green.  Good call.  Off the tee I'd have to guess you also do have more choices, as putting the ball in a flat spot would be a heck of an advantage....

Re #6, well, that green is never going to be easy to hit and hold - it's too skinny, too small, too firm.  But yes, it would be easier into the wind that down wind I have to guess... If anything though 6 has a similar issue to 16 - into the wind, one just busts one as the bunker is unreachable... yes you want to stay right to take the hellacious bunker out of play for the 2nd shot, but it's not that big of a deal as it's gonna be a tough shot one way or the other.  Seems to me 6 plays better either downwind or with no wind, as the choices are magnified with the bunker in play off the tee and driving the green being a possibility.

I should say something else - to me these are both damn fine golf holes.  In fact I count #6 for sure among my favorite short par 4's on this earth, regardless of the fact it might play better in a certain wind.  The green and green site are just so damn ingenious and so damn fun.... well... great is an overused word but it works here.  #16 falls just short of that status (IMO)... but it's still a damn good hole.

TH

ps - my memory may well be faulty, but isn't that pic taken from an angle right of the existing tee?  I remember going AT the hellacious greenside bunker more than having it on the left... again, it might be my lack of memory, it has been nearly two years since I played the hole.

[Dan Grossman]

Tom,

My memory may be faulty, but I think the picture is from the tee (or maybe just in front of it.)  I'll have to check my digital photos when I get home.  

[THuckaby2]

No hassles, Dan - you likely have it right.  Having hit it INTO that bunker once, it likely looms even larger in my memory.. oh yes, that is NOT a place from which one wants to golf one's ball.  Shoeless Joe Jackson's glove is not the only place where triples go to die...  

Man I love that golf hole...

TH

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

16 is a better hole in the winter because you can hit a second shot that will hold the green fairly easily. I love 6 in the summer wind. It is funny how this hole plays depending on wind direction and strength. I drove the green in the winter wind and it take all the golf in my bag to clear the bunker on the right into the wind. I hit a knockdown 6 iron from 100 out one day. I was so cool to try and hold that green throwing the ball into the wind. I just love this course.