[Mike Hendren]

The Honors Course has a new tenth hole.  I believe the teeing areas are unchanged.  The drive was previously into a saddled fairway.  The fairway has been raised, leveled and widened but most importantly angled from 11 to 5 o-clock with a massive flat bunker down the left side several feet below the fairway.   A new green has been constructed to the left and rear of the existing green that lengthend the hole by some 35+ yards and requires an uphill approach shot.  The hole's length, perhaps 480 yards from the tips - temps all but the absolutely longest of hitters to carry as much of the fairway bunker as possible.  

I'm told Dye redesigned the hole which I find outstanding.  Perhaps others more knowlegeable about the before and after can comment.

Mike

[Chris Cupit]

Mike,

I'm playing sunday and will try and take some pictures.  the green had a pythium problem that hit late spring and David Stone decided to keep the green closed for all but one week this year.

Next year the green should be ready.  In the meantime the old green--55 yards short and right of the new green has been in play.  At least it's a par 4 I can still reach in regulation!  I assume the dozers will remove all vestiges of the old green while the course is closed this winter.

BTW, the OLD tenth green was a favorite of mine but deemed too hard.  It was re-built in 1992 or 1993.  The original green assumed a longish approach (435 yard hole) to a green that had a very thin sliver or shelf that was elevated in front and then dropped sharply off to the right.  With a 4-6 iron it was pretty impossible to keep you ball on that shelf as the ball ran back right and left you with a 40 footer up over an enormous hill and then moving away from you!

From 1993 (or so) until today the real slope was cut out and now there has been a kind of bowl in the back right section of the green.  Over the years several greens were dramatically softened (#18 which was a great improvement) and some of the high grass right near the greens removed  I loved the original tenth green and the original front right bunker on #3 that was similar to today's steep faced front right bunker on #12.  

The course was lengthened over the past few years:
#2  520 to 570  
#3  195 to 220  OK but the old tougher front right bunker could have accomplished the same thing
#5  455 to 495  One of my favorite holes that I can't play from the tips anymore.  But the tips aren't for me anymore--too old and fat
#6  540 to 560
#7  440 to 470
#8  205 to 215 if the new back tee on #15 is not being used
#10  435 to 490
#15  445 to 480
#17  Planted a lot of trees down the left rough
#18  455 to 480

they changed #10 because:
1.  It was considered too short at 435--You could hit 9 iron or wedge in with a good drive
2.  The "valley" fairway was always wet and in (relatively) poor condition.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

[Chris Cupit]

Nice pic--I won't worry if I forget my camera

A sliver of the old green is barely visible on the right edge of the photo.  One can kind of get a feel for how prevalent the old "bowl fairway was!  It's a huge bunker now and what was the right rough/tall grass is the new fairway so it shifted right a decent amount.

Of course, I should never miss the new fairway given that my old tee ball on #10 had been in the right weeds for 16 years now!

[Mike Hendren]

Chris,

Glad you mentioned the softening of the 18th green.  I distinctively recall a large bowl on the front right quadrant of the green that dominated the entire complex, yet no one else remembers it.  

I hated to see the unattractive view that was opened behind the 3rd tee but understand the need to lengthen that hole.
Also a little disappointed to see saplings planted beyond the left fairway bunker on 17 and inside the dogleg of the 13th.

That said, the course is a great blend of architecture, nature and David Stone's handiwork.  It's a modern classic that should stand the test of time.  

Mike

[Joel_Stewart]

Is that picture taken from the tee or the fairway?  There is a lot of movement in the fairway.

[Chris Cupit]

I'm guesing that picture is from about 200 yards away from the new green and the photographer is standing on the edge of where the new fairway either kicks left into the new bunker or  a ball landing just right of the ridge should find a fairly flat fairway area.  The fairway is quite wide (at least 40 yards).  The "movement" in the fairway begins about 310 from the tee, maybe farther.  The drive zone from 210 to 310 is pretty flat.

18 had a HUGE left bank that funneled everything to almost the same point on the green.  If you missed the green left, you had no chance--a ball dropped at shoulder height on the edge of old 18 would roll off the right edge of the green!

There was also a small right front tongue that was borderline unputtable.  I do like the new 18 a lot better but the old one was definitely "quirky".

 

[Scott_Burroughs]

Here's the 10th from the tee:



and the approach (can see old green, er....flag, at right):

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

Good call Chris--I was probably 180ish, since I was 130 to the old green.  One brilliant feature on the old green was an undulation that mimicked the mountain ridge in the background.  A very cool nod to the par 3 at Dooks that has the back mounds mimicking the mountain.  I think that this course is awesome, but would love to see 17 shortened with the fairway widened on the right to bring the hazard into play--its a weak 5 but potentially great par 4.  I hit 6 iron for my approach, though it was a good club downwind--too short for a 5 without serious penalty consequences for a miss.

[Chris Cupit]

Robert,

I agree 17 needs some help now but I'd like to keep it a par 5.  #15, #16 and #18 are real hard holes (480, 210 and 475) and I like the fact that an "easy" hole is thrown in.  I think it puts even more pressure on you to make a birdie or you feel like you've really "lost" a shot to the field.

If it another 475 yard par 4, I think its a little boring finish wise and simply a matter of hanging on for dear life for the last mile!

There is a little room to add length from 494 to maybe 510 or so but I agree the trees on the left must go!  Why David planted those pines and (I think) a poplar tree is beyond me.  I know polars are fast growing but what a "trash tree".  

You hit a great drive and I agree, with a 6 iron it's not a hard shot.  But most tee shots that stay in the fairway hang on to the right side and players going for the green in two often have to hit a hybrid or 3 iron that starts out over "Big Bertha" the huge bunker on the front left.  A shot that ends up there can easily lead to a big number and pretty much takes any chance for birdie away.

Maybe a few more yards in length, an inside bunker protecting the left side instead of those dorky trees and a fairway pushed a little farther right?  You would have to clear some trees but you would maybe force those right of center to actually curve a ball that has to start out over trouble?

Good call (as well) on the old tenth green's shadowing of the mountain ridge.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

I was thinking in terms of a 400 yard hole.  By cutting the trees on the right , the hole would be straightened out on the drive, but would have pulled shots finding Big Bertha.  Also, the hazard on the right could provide some risk/reward on the tee shot--kill drive left risking hazard or lay back to 150+, which would make a hang out miss or pull very possible.

[Mike Hendren]

17 really rewards the big hitter, but only if he can move the ball right to left a significant amountoff the tee.  I'm guessing the right hand trees see a lot of business.  For the player who hasn't moved his tee ball right to left, I can't fathom trying to play a cut off a hook lie aimed at that massive front left bunker.  

To boot, one of the few realistic options for the lesser player to make a birdie and a great match play hole down the stretch.

I too would prefer a second bunker, cleverly hidden by the existing left-hand fairway bunker be installed in lieu of the saplings planted.  Make is deep.

Mike

[J_ Crisham]

Chris, I remember a player who ALMOST hit one of the most improbable recovery shots from the rocks fronting the 16th green! Sometimes a man's got to know his limitations.

[Tim Bert]

I played my one and only round at The Honors this summer.  The 10th was in transition, so I didn't really get to see the "before" or the "after" - I saw parts of both.  The new hole was shaping up very nicely when I visited, and it looked like it would be a fun, challenging hole.  

Of note, it appears that the new green location will much improve the green-to-tee walk from 10 to 11, which was a bit of a lengthy, uphill hike (especially in the high 90s with lots of humidity) from the previous green location.  

[Chris Cupit]

Chris, I remember a player who ALMOST hit one of the most improbable recovery shots from the rocks fronting the 16th green! Sometimes a man's got to know his limitations.

Jack,  
I remember almost having to fish your ass out of the lake

The greatest "recovery" was you re-gaining your balance and staying dry...unlike your golf ball

Too funny.

[Matt Kardash]

This Dye hole looks a lot better than the one's on that other Dye course we saw a few days ago. You get the sense Dye himself had more control over this one...that other one probably had way more Perry.

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