Cobb's Creek Collaborators - Restoration Dreams

[Joe Bausch]

This weekend the Northeast got some very heavy rains.  Jerry Haas, a friend of a friend, took these photos of Cobb's Creek.  The damage looks significant.

[Adam Clayman]

This is just horrible news.

Combined with Cirba's feeling the need to leave.

I hope both are back and at not too much of a cost.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Joe,

Thanks for posting those pics. Sad to see the 3 rd green wash away again. It looked good before the rains. Obviously, Casper Golf needs to do work with water management and spend some money. Perhaps this will be an impetus for the restoration project.

[Mark_Fine]

Sad news indeed.  If you saw the stream, you could see how this could easily happen with very heavy rains.  Forrest and I walked the property a year or so ago and one of the first suggestions we made was to develop a plan to manage water and drainage as part of the overall master plan.  Judging by the photos, you can see why it is needed.  I hope it gets done.

[Mike Cirba]

With a tip of the cap to Indiana Joe(nes) Bausch for my inspiration and his discoveries, following please find a chronological listing of related articles from beginning of construction of Cobb’s Creek til shortly after opening.  

The articles run from 4/1915 through 6/1916 and cover a variety of related topics, including the hosting of the US Amateur at M.MM...MER...MPFFHHH later that year.

For anyone interested in early Philadelphia golf, or early American golf for that matter, there is a lot of interesting and fascinating stuff in here and in the interest of housekeeping, I wanted to keep it all in one place on this lengthy thread as a single-source.  























Interesting what this one maintains about who the best golf architects were in the land during 1916…

[Joe Bausch]

I sort of started to wonder if Cobb's Creek used the wicker baskets, like Merion, especially since my unearthing weeks ago that Flynn was involved in the construction of Cobbs. 

Today I have evidence that was true, this from the August 1916 Daily Eagle.

[Dan Herrmann]

Joe - I wonder what the other "number of links" would be?

[Joe Bausch]

Joe - I wonder what the other "number of links" would be?

I can't remember them all.  Those that were already known and those that I've added to the 'flynn tome'...I've forgotten!  But I'll get an update for you soon.  I can remember Brookline Square and Old York Road.

[Mike Cirba]

Joe,

I'm on blackberry and can't see the article.

You're killing me! 

What does it say?  Is there a pic??

[Joe Bausch]

Joe,

I'm on blackberry and can't see the article.

You're killing me! 

What does it say?  Is there a pic??

Dear Mike,

    You're a big dummy for using a Blackberry.

Sincerely,
Fred G. Sanford
-------------------------

Basically the article says that the wicker baskets are also in use at Cobb's Creek.  No pic though.  And, if this was really true, I wonder why we don't have any photo to prove it.

[Mike Cirba]

Hmmm...do our pocs show flags?

Don't know I ever noticed, or perhaps too dumm to remember.

[Joe Bausch]

Hmmm...do our pocs show flags?

Don't know I ever noticed, or perhaps too dumm to remember.

I think most of the photos we have from 1916 are before the course opened.  And I don't think any pins were out.

[Mike Cirba]

Joe,

That's what I thought.

Even the one hanging on your wall has a temp winter green with a flag over to the right near todays 5th green.

Perhaps they were stolen? 

[TEPaul]

"Interesting what this one maintains about who the best golf architects were in the land during 1916…"

Joe:

It is interesting, isn't it, who that article says the USGA thought were the best golf architects of that time----eg the "amateurs?" This issue of amateur status became a very complex one at this time on the matter of what the infraction was for----eg ex. making money from say golf and sports equipment or making money on golf architecture. The USGA seemed to have gotten more conservative in the next few years during which the amateur status of the likes of Tillinghast and Travis was called into question and removed (or "debarred" as Macdonald called it).

I believe Macdonald was one of those who actually wrote some of those "Amateur Status" resolutions for the USGA at this time that were adopted. Macdonald's own personal beliefs and philosophy on these kinds of things is also very complex.

[Mike Cirba]

Tom,

I'm the one who you're quoting above about the amateur architects, not Joe. 

[Joe Bausch]

One of the best articles I've found to date on Cobb's Creek near its inception comes from the August 28, 1916 edition of the Daily Eagle (go figure, a New York newspaper!):  "Philadelphia Golfers Have Gem In Their New Public Links"

Here's another person that thinks it could be the best municipal course in the country (I've not been able to figure out yet the identity of the Daily Eagle golf writer).

[Mike Cirba]

Joe,

What a terrific find and wonderfully detailed article!

I think there is plenty of evidence that Cobb's Creek was the best municipal course in the country prior to the opening of Bethpage in the mid-30s and this contemporaneous article adds significant weight to that contention.

Thanks for sharing.

[Dan Herrmann]

Joe,
Another great find.  I love the last paragraph about tying in a visit to Merion for the Open with a visit to Cobb's Creek.

[Mike Cirba]

Dan,

What's also cool is that it's another article confirming that Cobb's Creek used Wicker Baskets like their Merion progenitors.

It's also interesting that the writer for the Brooklyn, NY paper is suggesting that the NYC park commission get together to go down to Philly to figure out how to build a real golf course.   Sort of ironic, actually.   

[Rob_Waldron]

Too bad we cannot have the mounted policemen riding down the sides of the course to keep away any intruders like in the old days!

[TEPaul]

"Joe,

What a terrific find and wonderfully detailed article!

I think there is plenty of evidence that Cobb's Creek was the best municipal course in the country prior to the opening of Bethpage in the mid-30s and this contemporaneous article adds significant weight to that contention."




Mike Cirba and Joe Bausch:

I don't think anyone can make a contention like that because as I understand it the jury is still out on that issue. What or who is "the jury?" Apparently it is only Tom MacWood, or so he claims, and he does not agree with that contention. Therefore the opinion and evidence in all newspaper articles from back then, even if hugely comprehensive, is just garbage and not to be taken seriously.

[Joe Bausch]

Too bad we cannot have the mounted policemen riding down the sides of the course to keep away any intruders like in the old days!

Here's a photo I've posted before, but perhaps others have not seen it.  This is the 4th hole, with the mounted police in the creek!

[Joe Bausch]

This is about a 150 yard par 3 where two creeks come together with a little island short of the green.  Below is the current Google aerial that is somewhat close to that old photo.  The fellow is teeing off pretty close, I think, to where the golf cart down low is parked in the current aerial.  Also, I've added a flag to the green in the photo.

[TEPaul]

"Joe,
Can you describe what we are seeing."



Kelly:

What you are seeing is one of the only legitimate opportunities in the long annals of golf for a golfer to purposefully bean a mounted policeman with his golf shot and golf ball. It looks to me like that golfer is lining up for a low draw right off that cop's noggin! I sure know I'd do that and if I took the horse down by mistake rather than the mounted policeman I would consider that a partial victory.

[Joe Bausch]

Too bad we cannot have the mounted policemen riding down the sides of the course to keep away any intruders like in the old days!

Here's a photo I've posted before, but perhaps others have not seen it.  This is the 4th hole, with the mounted police in the creek!

Also, if someone runs onto a golf course while you are playing do you think they should be tasered.

If you would have seen the way Cirba and I played there a couple of weeks ago, you'd petition to have cops with tasers to end such a display.  We might have set back golf 10 years with our combined performance.