Cobb's Creek Collaborators - Restoration Dreams

[wsmorrison]

OK, you guys managed to get Pete and Bill to Cobb's Creek GC.  Now, when are you gonna get Tom Paul there?  He should've been there with Pete and Bill...you'd still be there in deep conversation...on the front 9 

Hey, I got to be the 1000th post!  Alright!

[Kalen Braley]

OK, you guys managed to get Pete and Bill to Cobb's Creek GC.  Now, when are you gonna get Tom Paul there?  He should've been there with Pete and Bill...you'd still be there in deep conversation...on the front 9 

Hey, I got to be the 1000th post!  Alright!

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Mike actually got it.

While you have the 1000th reply your post is actually 1,001st.  

Sorry, I have to let my anal rentitive side out every now and then to play. 

[Joe Bausch]

OK, you guys managed to get Pete and Bill to Cobb's Creek GC.  Now, when are you gonna get Tom Paul there?  He should've been there with Pete and Bill...you'd still be there in deep conversation...on the front 9 

Hey, I got to be the 1000th post!  Alright!

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Mike actually got it.

While you have the 1000th reply your post is actually 1,001st.  

Sorry, I have to let my anal rentitive side out every now and then to play. 

I did 'trick' TomP into being there back in the spring after our group met w/ Joe Logan of the Inquirer.  His car was overheating, w/ tires going flat, but we managed the trip back along the surface streets from downtown Philly, thru West Philly, to Cobb's Creek.  And the one comment I remember Tom making was similar to that from Bill K and Pete T:  the greens just fit seamlessly with the land.  I think that was a feature with that era, and I like it very much.

[Mike_Cirba]

Yes, Tom Paul has been to Cobb's Creek and from what I understand, he was even later that evening seen in the 'hood with Huge "Puffy" Wilson discussing bunker surrounds and the meaning of restoration.

As far as the greensites, it's amazing to me how low-profile and at-grade they are considering they were located and built in 1915.   Of course, the wonderful elevation changes of the property permit this very "minimalist" look because they utilize such wonderful surface drainage given most of their locations at the high points of the property...however, even the ones down in the lowlands have just the right amount of tilt to both look completely natural and to shed water (and golf balls) effectively.

Joe...did either Pete or Bill provide any thoughts on the old 6th hole, given it's abruptness?

[Joe Bausch]

Yes, Tom Paul has been to Cobb's Creek and from what I understand, he was even later that evening
Joe...did either Pete or Bill provide any thoughts on the old 6th hole, given it's abruptness?

About all both of them said regarding #6 was "wow, must have been a tough hole".

[Dan Herrmann]

Joe - do you have a photo tour of Cobb's Creek on your website?

[Joe Bausch]

Joe - do you have a photo tour of Cobb's Creek on your website?

Yes, but these are from last year and the course is in better shape now so I might get out there in the fall for another set:

http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Cobbs_Creek/

[Mike_Cirba]

Mike--Have you posted the interview for public viewing on YouTube, or anywhere else?

Unfortunately, not yet.

I've been really very busy, but it's my stepson to be who is the video whiz.   Unfortunately he filmed everything but then got a job where he's been working a bunch of hours so I haven't pestered him about editing it down to reasonable length and getting it out there.

I think I might put a bug in his ear tonight.   It's something that should be out there for posterity.

[Joe Bausch]

Cobb's Creek was very busy in 1927 with very long waits on certain holes.  Here is proof, the group waiting to tee off the 3rd (from the July 3 issue of the Philadelphia Public Ledger):



Now, the accompanying picture was these two ladies.  Were they the cause of the back-up and had just teed off, or the reason why these guys were just sitting around on the 3rd tee as the ladies were up on the 4th? 



Note:  I found some tournament scores from a July 12, 1927 qualifier at Cobb's for the upcoming Publinx tourney in Cleveland and the hole-by-hole scores of the two low qualifiers strongly suggests the current 17th hole was now in place.  So I have it boxed in between 1926 and July 1927.

[Mike_Cirba]

Joe,

Too cool.   Was the second pic of the ladies really an accompaniment and were they at Cobb's in those fetching outfits, or are you pulling our legs?

Also, note that a number of the players waiting on the 3rd tee are standing on the 18th green.   I'm betting those bunkers had some footprints, as well.

Also, very interesting about the date of pinning down the current 17th.   I wonder if it was during the time Ab Smith was working on the Karakung course, which opened 11 holes in 1927....I'm betting it was.

[Joe Bausch]

Joe,

Too cool.   Was the second pic of the ladies really an accompaniment and were they at Cobb's in those fetching outfits, or are you pulling our legs?

Also, very interesting about the date of pinning down the current 17th.   I wonder if it was during the time Ab Smith was working on the Karakung course, which opened 11 holes in 1927....I'm betting it was.

I ain't kiddin' about the ladies being the accompanying picture and were playing at Cobb's in those outfits (and check out those shoes)!

Yes, if I was a bettin' man my money would be on Ab Smith for the 17th.

[Joe Bausch]

Florence Borton took a club, and gave the golf ball 40 dubs.
And when she saw her partner Sally,

Ahh, never mind.   

[Mike_Cirba]

She clicked her heels and forgot the tally.   

[Joe Bausch]

She clicked her heels and forgot the tally.   

I thought for sure it would be Barney or Tom Paul to fill in the blank!  What a nice surprise.   

Now I could be wrong, but for my dollars that exchange is one of the funniest I've ever read at GCA.com.  I teed it up for you nice and you hit a 375 yard bomb center-cut!

[Mike_Cirba]

Joe,

If I'm counting correctly, that's SIX foursomes on the 3rd tee!!! 

I know we've seen the number of upwards of 100,000 rounds per year at Cobb's Creek in its heyday and 2-hour waits on the 4th tee along.   My lord..how much would one have to love the game to endure that!?

[Adam Clayman]

Mike, Just a reminder...You Tube?

Looking forward to seeing the experience.

Thanx for shar'in

[Mike_Cirba]

Adam,

Tomorrow I hope to go through about an hours worth of film and try to edit to 10 minutes with my step-son to be (who is the real talent in the family).

Failing that, we might just do a Part 1, Part 2, etc., but my sense is that might be a bit much for your average interested party to wade through.

I hope we can get this one done very soon.   I know it's been way too long.

[Joe Bausch]

Here's a couple of entertaining articles from the Public Ledger (July 8 and 9, 1922) where rules are enacted that says if you aren't near your bag when your name is called, you get moved to the end of the line.  Apparently on a weekend hundreds of bags could be lined up!

[Mike_Cirba]

Joe,

That's incredible..once again.

Do you realize that 365 golfers essentially amounts to a foursome every ten minutes teeing off for FIFTEEN HOURS STRAIGHT!?   

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

I'm back from the great abyss.. the twins are 4 months old now and doing well!

I actually carved out enought ime to play Cobb's on Sunday afternoon.  Managed to get twelve holes in to save some time - played 1-8 and then walked to the 15th tee and played 15-18.  I am starting to think 12 holes might just be the perfect length for the modern golfer and his free time... as Peter Jacobsen says, "The key to shooting lower scores... play less holes."

Some thoughts on the current conditions:

#1 should be played from the back tee after a renovation.  With modern equipment it brings the creek much more into play.
The greens are in rough shape on the front but fantastic on the back (although slow due to the heat).
They are rebuilding the faces of the bunkers on 17.
15th hole (especially the green) is a world class par 4 but would be an awesome par 5.
The raised 3rd green is growing on me.
Much of the scrub has grown back in on the course and desperately needs to be cut back.
They have started to grow gorse in on a number of holes, most notably in front of the tee on #8.
9 would be a wonderful hole from the old tee.  The fairway has some wonderful contours to it and I would love to see players hit that 100 yd. approach into that blind green.

Finally, the course was fast and firm in the fairways which really brought the slope/angles of the fairways into play.  It is a MUCH DIFFERENT course in those conditions and I really felt like I was playing a parkland course in England.

Mike/Joe - email me when you get a chance.

[MSusko]

Geoff,

Thanks for playing this past weekend!

We punched the greens two weeks ago so they were not in that same condition they have been throughout the year.  Also, I'm sure you can see the need to a new irrigation system as the course is very dry after over a month of no rain. 

To all local Philly guys:  Lets set something up for this fall at Cobb's.  I know a few of you have been out this year but lets get everyone together and play some golf not just look at the course!

Mark

[Joe Bausch]

Geoff,

Thanks for playing this past weekend!

We punched the greens two weeks ago so they were not in that same condition they have been throughout the year.  Also, I'm sure you can see the need to a new irrigation system as the course is very dry after over a month of no rain. 

To all local Philly guys:  Lets set something up for this fall at Cobb's.  I know a few of you have been out this year but lets get everyone together and play some golf not just look at the course!

Mark

Mark, give me a couple of dates and I'll attempt to coordinate the group coming out.

Joe
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[Joe Bausch]

Here's a January 22, 1922 Public Ledger article talking about the need for more municipal courses in Philly.  Note, the author Frank McCracken gives credit to Ab Smith for the design of Cobb's Creek.

[Mike_Cirba]

Apparently the dissing of Hugh Wilson started pretty early.   

Was McCracken related to MacWood and Moriarty?   

Just kidding folks!!!   We have enough other contemporaneous articles to prove the design involvement of Hugh Wilson and all of the others, but it also seems that Ab Smith was most involved of all of these men in public golf, particularly in the building of the course (as opposed to designing it) as well as his involvement in pushing for additional courses in the 20's (and then designing them as well).

[mike_malone]

 The most asked question I get is  "What is happening with Cobbs ?"