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Pete Garvey

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Robert White
« on: October 30, 2007, 09:01:44 AM »
Just came across Robert White's name in another posting.  I grew up working at and playing the Cincinnati Country Club which is a White design.  As a PGA professional, I knew that he was the first president of our national organization.  I also had the pleasure of playing Longue Vue Club in Pittsburgh back in the early 90's which, in my opinion, is a true gem.

Did Robert White follow a template, for lack of a better term, like Raynor?  What characteristics were commonly used if so?  Other than Cincinnati and Longue Vue, what other courses by White would you recommend?

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wsmorrison

Re:Robert White
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2007, 09:53:00 AM »
Pete,

I'm glad you brought up the subject of Robert White.  He is totally missed by the folks on this discussion group and I think the fact that he was designing some template holes as well as original designs certainly merit a discussion along with the usual template suspects.  

The photo that George Bahto posted of the Road Hole at North Shore CC looked fascinating.  I'd like to see that hole from the fairway approach angle.

I hope David Gookin and others familiar with Longue Vue might weigh in.  What are your thoughts about the Redan and Eden holes at Longue Vue.  I heard the clubhouse is amazing with 3-foot thick stone walls.
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John Kavanaugh

Re:Robert White
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2007, 10:32:02 AM »
The Bob White is my favorite bird simply because of its song.  A link: http://www.mbr-pwrc.usgs.gov/id/framlst/i2890id.html
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JNagle

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Re:Robert White
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2007, 10:41:40 AM »
Yes, Robert White did create prototypical golf holes.  Longue Vue has a Redan and Eden.  Northampton Country Club does not have any of the prototypical holes but the greens are what you would expect from some Raynor projects (or White for that matter); double-plateau, deep swales.....  

White was truly a trend setter in his time.  Some of his 1st's include working for Crawford, McGregor and Camby which became McGregor.  He was the 1st to create machined golf clubheads, 1st to introduce crop management practices into the turf industry.  Created the first "management" style maintenance practice overseeing 11 Westchester area courses.  Founding member of both the PGA and ASGCA.  He also built the frist putting green at the White House.  

Robert White much like Findlay and Park Jr. are forgotten (somewhat) on this DG.  Their contributions in design and development of the game in America were nonetheless substantial.  Maybe it was timing, maybe personality, that left them from the forefront of todays architectural students.  White's work at North Shore (always being disputed) is top-notch.  The 9th hole - Road Hole is as good as it gets.  His other work is decent but will not blow you away.  His courses are subtle and fun to return to time and time again.

Yes, Wayne the Clubhouse at Longue Vue is unrivaled in the state and easily one of the best in the country.
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It's not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or the doer of deeds could have done better.  The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; .....  "The Critic"

Bill Brightly

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Re:Robert White
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2007, 11:52:26 AM »
I think he gets hurt in the NY metro area. He built Green Brook on a really tough piece of property, IMO. Lots of severe side hill greens and several quirky holes, one of which is a 180 yard lay up tee shot on par 5 dog leg, followed by blind 5 iron up a hill, etc.

However, he did build a punch bowl green (#16) which is kind of cool.
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George_Bahto

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Re:Robert White
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2007, 07:37:38 PM »
"one of which is a 180 yard lay up tee shot on par 5 dog leg, followed by blind 5 iron up a hill, etc."

Bill, played it years ago - is that NJ's worse golf hole? - or better put: that is NJ's worse golf hole !!!

 :P
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If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

Sean_Tully

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Re:Robert White
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2007, 01:03:17 AM »
Is Shorehaven still around? I have seen  some interesting photos of some of the holes at this course and wondered if that was his style, or if it was specific to one site.

Tully
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Gerry B

Re:Robert White
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2007, 01:22:27 AM »
played Longue Vue for the 1st time a few weeks ago on back to back days with Oakmont. I was very impressed - one of those hidden gems that somehow falls below the radar screen. I thought it was as good as any of the other elite courses in Pittsburgh( Oakmont excluded). I was told that Tillinghast did some work there as well. He probably di his work there at the same time as his work at Sunnehanna in 1923. What a great piece of property  - great elevation changes and a nice variety of holes. Had a great par 5 with a dramatic downhill tee shot and a fabulous par 4 with a punchbowl green. Worth a visit.
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