Since we are picking on C&C, let's take a shot at National too!

[Mike Sweeney]

Since Bill Schulz has decided to make it "Slay a Sacred Cow Week" with his post on bad C&C holes, here is another to offer.

The reality is National should have bought the Sebonack land years ago an they didn't. Now you have a world class golf course next door with two architects that are planning their next project together. It could have been worse with 75 houses with 3 acre zoning to further clog up the Hampton roads. Rather than have a cat fight about who was to blame, I suggest some discussion on how to fix the problem.

The maintenance shed and employee housing at Sebonack are an eyesore from the 5th hole and 6th tee at National. How would you fix it from both sides of the fence? What can National do and what can Sebonack do? Let's be realistic, they are not going to tear it down!



Notice the chain link fence. Suggestions on how to cover that up?



Employee housing

[Joe Hancock]

Mike,

Did you take any pictures of the gravel bunkers at National?  

Joe

[Jeff Spittel]

Boo hoo for those unfortunate members at NGLA.

I suppose they'll be takin it to the bridge like the godfather of soul.

[wsmorrison]

Trees and brush are needed to cover up the lines of sight that expose the maintenance and worker housing.  I was surprised to see a fence up when we visited last.  I guess Sebonack put it there as there are no fences between NGLA, Shinnecock Hills and Southampton.  Sebonack ought to plant the trees and get rid of the fence to be the good new neighbor in town.  

Does the fence keep the NGLAers off Sebonack or the Sebonackers off NGLA?  Probably neither; it is simply an eyesore.

[John Mayhugh]

Never had the pleasure of playing NGLA, but it's near the top of my wish list.  I can't believe someone would put up a fence that looks so trashy.  Didn't Sebonack cost something around 150 million?  Fences aren't going to be pretty, but cedar or cast iron would have looked so much better.  If you must have a chain link fence, at least make it green or black.

Adding some trees could help a little bit, but in the fall seems like there's no way to avoid staring at the maintenance building. Seems like NGLA did really mess up by not buying some of the nearby land as a buffer, but Sebonack doesn't seem like a great neighbor either.  

[Kyle Harris]

A NIMBY attitude on a golf course? Sometimes arrogance reaches no end....

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mike Sweeney,

The die is cast.

I think that very little can be done other than spot planting.

As to those stating that NGLA should have bought the land, you can only buy what's for sale.  An option on a buffer with respect to a future sale was my suggestion 20+ years ago.

I don't understand the NEED for a fence, but, perhaps a prudent reason exists.

I think you have to visit NGLA, Shinnecock and Sebonack to get a sense of the nature of the buildings and their impact on all of the properties.

I still don't understand why some of the best property at Sebonack was chosen to be the parking lot.

I like the way Metedeconk and The Medalist sited their bungalows.  At night, everything is dark and most close their blinds/shades/drapes.

[Phil_the_Author]

National can always sell their property and build a new course elsewhere... Hasn't this been done before at other top clubs?

[Tyler Kearns]

Notice the chain link fence. Suggestions on how to cover that up?

Mike,

Planting a vine like virginia creeper would cover up the appearance of the fence rather quickly, not to mention the ground level activity beyond.

TK

[mark chalfant]

Mike,
Im not  conversant about the  'screening issue' but I tried to come up with my "least favorite hole" at NGLA. It  is probably #13. This is a nice par 3 hole. but  I find it less inspiring to play or look at , than most any other hole on the course. In a way, I look at 13 as a transitional hole that aids the journey from 11 and 12 to the magfinificent finishing strech provided by 14-18. Mike what might be your  least favorite hole  at NGLA ?

[Patrick_Mucci]

National can always sell their property and build a new course elsewhere... Hasn't this been done before at other top clubs?

Philip Young,

No, they can't.

People I know have searched diligently for years for a site on Eastern LI, to date, they haven't found a viable one, especially on the South Fork

[BCrosby]

Phil, Phil, Phil....

[Joe Hancock]

Phillip,

When you remove your tongue from your cheek, does it make a loud popping sound?

We have, unfortunately, become an emoticon dependent society, haven't we?

Joe

[Jonathan Cummings]

National?  - Sistine Chapel, only better.  JC

[Phil_the_Author]

Joe,

My tongue was so very far in my cheek that it hurts to remove it...

Yet consider some of the courses that did exactly that, sell and rebuild. Merion and Aronomink to name just two.

Unthinkable for NGLA? Of course...

And Pat, for all that searching over all those years, still, someone was able to find a way to purchase the property next door and build a heck of a golf course (or so I hear! )

[mark chalfant]

brother Mike Sweeney,
is this  a bait and switch ?  to truly "take a shot at NGLA" let us know your "less preferred holes" at NGLA. A discussion of barricade logistics with its new neighbor is not sufficient.

[Mark Hissey]

Since Bill Schulz has decided to make it "Slay a Sacred Cow Week" with his post on bad C&C holes, here is another to offer.

The reality is National should have bought the Sebonack land years ago an they didn't. Now you have a world class golf course next door with two architects that are planning their next project together. It could have been worse with 75 houses with 3 acre zoning to further clog up the Hampton roads. Rather than have a cat fight about who was to blame, I suggest some discussion on how to fix the problem.

The maintenance shed and employee housing at Sebonack are an eyesore from the 5th hole and 6th tee at National. How would you fix it from both sides of the fence? What can National do and what can Sebonack do? Let's be realistic, they are not going to tear it down!



Notice the chain link fence. Suggestions on how to cover that up?



Employee housing

For the record, here is the fact of the matter.

50-100 feet of trees were cleared into the Sebonack property by NGLA some years back. When the land was surveyed, that was established beyond quesion. Sebonack has spent a considerable amount of money building that berm as well as using a tree-spade to transplant numerous trees in the area to cover things up. The fence was built for both liability and security reasons.

Given the fact that NGLA cut down Sebonack trees, far into Sebonack property, and given that Sebonack is the only entity to have made any attempt to cover up this supposed eyesore, I think it is about time that NGLA spends some time and effort on rectifying the problem that they created.

[Bob_Huntley]

Mark,

I have no dog in this fight but surely the Sebonack crew must have some sensibilities as to the effect that their buildings had on the National. If not, then all I can say that is that they are without redemption.

Bob

[Mike Sweeney]

Mark,

I have no dog in this fight but surely the Sebonack crew must have some sensibilities as to the effect that their buildings had on the National. If not, then all I can say that is that they are without redemption.

Bob

Mark,

I am currently unwinding a similar problem up in Connecticut where a software company came in and built a third floor on a building next to my in-laws property and damaged the views they had for 47 years. My father-in-law decided to pick a fight, so clearly he was part of the problem, but all parties would be better off today if they found a way to make the most of it back in the day.

Cheers.

[Rich Goodale]

Looking at it from Sebonack's point of view...

Do we put the ugly buildings where they can be seen by our members, or do we put them where they can be seen by the members of another club?

Looking at it from NGLA's point of view...

How could we be so stupid as to not object when the plans for those ugly buildings were put forward?

[wsmorrison]

Thank you for supplying additional information, Mark.  Like most discussions, there are two sides to consider.  I hope going forward that the two clubs can work together for the best interests of all memberships.  Whoever covers up those gaps along the property lines, I think we can say without argument that they should be covered up.

[Bob_Huntley]

Looking at it from Sebonack's point of view...

Do we put the ugly buildings where they can be seen by our members, or do we put them where they can be seen by the members of another club?

Looking at it from NGLA's point of view...

How could we be so stupid as to not object when the plans for those ugly buildings were put forward?

Richard,

Do you know for a fact that the permits for the placement of the buildings were known and published in the public record?

Bob

[Mark Hissey]

Mark,

I have no dog in this fight but surely the Sebonack crew must have some sensibilities as to the effect that their buildings had on the National. If not, then all I can say that is that they are without redemption.

Bob

Absolutely we were concious of NGLA. However, Sebonack was built with numerous constraints that our neighbors never had to be concerned with. Due to wetlands setbacks (no disturbance with 125' of very liberally interpreted wetland boundaries), bluff and sea level limits, and then compounded by Sebonack property being appropriated, there was no other location for the maintenance facility.

Please note the colors of the buildings, and in particular that of the Staff Quarters. We used the best colors possible. The architecture of that building is hardly shabby either.

But you have to ask yourself this. Why has NGLA done nothing to correct this self-created problem?

One other point. When looking at the Sebonack facilities on the right, glance to the left. The maintenance facility there is hardly a thing of beauty.

[Mark Hissey]

Thank you for supplying additional information, Mark.  Like most discussions, there are two sides to consider.  I hope going forward that the two clubs can work together for the best interests of all memberships.  Whoever covers up those gaps along the property lines, I think we can say without argument that they should be covered up.

We're all for that Wayne. We've done everything we can and more to build a good relationship with National. I also think we've spent a disproportionate amount of time and effort to correct this problem. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that we are more concerned about the issue than the membership of NGLA.

[Mark Hissey]

Looking at it from Sebonack's point of view...

Do we put the ugly buildings where they can be seen by our members, or do we put them where they can be seen by the members of another club?

Looking at it from NGLA's point of view...

How could we be so stupid as to not object when the plans for those ugly buildings were put forward?

Richard,

Do you know for a fact that the permits for the placement of the buildings were known and published in the public record?

Bob

Bob. Yes they were. There were numerous Town public hearings held and everything was reviewed, contested and approved in a public forum.