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JMorgan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Obvious Design Amalgams
« on: October 17, 2007, 08:52:24 AM »
Nassau CC in Glen Cove, NY is an example of a golf course that is an amalgam of many architectural styles.  Hole #3 is a prototypical Herb Strong design, #5 a MacRaynor, #15 a diluted example of Emmet cross bunkering, etc., all laid on top of several rounds of redesigns by the green committee in the early years of the club.  Aesthetically, there is no consistent theme over 18 holes.  So, too, any strategic theme.

What other course examples can you point to where multiple architectural inputs are:

Obviously apparent?
 
Subtly apparent?

Not apparent at all?

Can a course with a multitude of architectural styles maintain consistent strategic merits throughout?  

Examples where multiple inputs have worked overall?  

Examples where multiple inputs have produced strategical dissonance or absolute nightmares?

What does a course with obvious stylistic differences say, if anything, about the green committee decision-making process?

How is strategy best preserved on a course that has undergone multiple designer inputs?


SPDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Obvious Design Amalgams
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2007, 09:33:19 AM »
CC of Fairfield has RTJ laid over Tillie laid over Raynor.  

Mike_Cirba

Re:Obvious Design Amalgams
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2007, 09:37:55 AM »
Gulph Mills is mostly a Ross course with holes by Perry Maxwell (good) and RTJ Sr. (not so good).  

About 50 other architects marched thru there over time, although unfortunately I haven't been back since Gil Hanse did some work that I believe was partially meant to provide a more cohesive look and theme.

I'm sure Tom Paul can tell us more.

Brad Tufts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Obvious Design Amalgams
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2007, 09:56:26 AM »
I thought that #8 at Pinehurst, while all done by Fazio, had several different styles in play.

I didn't find it as offensive as others have, it just has several different "movements" to the design.
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

JMorgan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Obvious Design Amalgams
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2007, 10:07:14 AM »
How would all of you categorize these changes... subtle, obvious, not apparent?  

Did these alterations affect your opinion of the courses?  How so?


Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re:Obvious Design Amalgams
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2007, 01:09:51 PM »
James:

Early on in our restoration of Camargo, the superintendent at the time prioritized the bunkers to be re-done on the basis of their condition and how much they needed new sand ... so for a while there, you could find a von Hagge bunker on one side of the green and a restored Raynor bunker on the other!  It was really weird.  Somewhere I've got a few slides of those days.

Finally we refused to proceed that way and insisted that they fix entire holes at the same time.

On your main subject, though, I would point out that there are lots of courses in the UK which have been redone by several different architects over the years -- Rye is one of the best examples.  However, the various styles don't clash there, BECAUSE THOSE ARCHITECTS WERE MUCH LESS CONCERNED WITH FORCING THEIR OWN RECOGNIZABLE STYLE ONTO THE LAND.  
« Last Edit: October 17, 2007, 01:12:00 PM by Tom_Doak »

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Obvious Design Amalgams
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2007, 01:54:59 PM »
Wouldn't the poster boy for this topic be ANGC?
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Obvious Design Amalgams
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2007, 02:17:08 PM »
Garland -

I was going to note the same thing.

Is there another course with bunker styles that contrast as starkly as those of MacK v. Maxwell v. RTJ?

I'm happy they haven't tried to conform the styles. As it is you can almost read the design evolution of ANGC just by looking closely at bunkers.


 
« Last Edit: October 17, 2007, 04:41:13 PM by BCrosby »