[Mike_Cirba]

As I understand it, Pine Tree in Boynton Beach, FL was closed a few years ago for extensive work.  I have a couple of questions for anyone familiar with the situation.

1) Was the work a restoration, or renovation?

2) Who was the architect involved, if any?

3) How did the work come out, in your opinion?

I know Patrick frequents there, and I hope he sees this, but anyone else "in the know" please feel free to respond, as well.  Thanks!

[Jerry Kluger]

I can't answer your first two questions but with respect to your third, the end result was excellent.  This is a wonderful course which is a great experience from the moment that you pull up.  The course is challenging for all levels and would be great to play on a regular basis as everything is there for you to see and gives you options based upon how you are hitting the ball on the particular day.  

[TEPaul]

MikeC:

I can't imagine that Pat would not know all the details that you'd want to know but if he doesn't for some reason there's a very good golfer friend of mine from here who moved to Boynton, joined Pine Tree and lived right on the course during that time when the work was being done and after. He's back here in Philly now but he's not a contributor to Golfclubatlas.

So if Pat doesn't know this guy definitely would.

I feel I should be more familiar with Pine Tree but I've probably only played there a half dozen times since it was started--although I was there last March. I do know my Dad was one of the ones who founded the club and that he was a big fan of Dick Wilson and Joe Lee. Dad lived in Delray Beach for about 35-40 years but he never talked much about golf or any of his interests in it.

It's times like this that I wish I could talk to him though. All I know about his interest in Pine Tree is he was a founder for which he had a couple of the original residential lots. Dad had one left when the club did something or made some changes in the status of the founders so Dad got pissed and purposely decided not to maintain his vacant lot which was right on one of the holes. It used to amuse the hell out of him that the lot looked like a total shit-hole and all the other members used to complain about how unsightly that damn lot was.

He also lived at Pine Tree for a time (back in the 1960s) when he divorced my mother with his friend Jim Raymond who drew Dagwood and Blondie and the stories from the lives of those two guys at Pine Tree are legion. Tommy Armour was over there all the time.

The one I liked the best was about this big standard Poodle they had that was apparently otheworldly smart. They had to be there at the right time to walk the dog and being sort of out of control guys one time they were probably out drinking and they missed the dog's walk and when they got back to the house at Pine Tree the dog had dragged some of their dirty laundry out into the middle of the living room, took a dump on it and put its leash on top of eveything!

Whoa!! Is that about as close to talking and cursing as a dog can get?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mike Cirba,

It was a Restoration, with a very slight modification on the bunker surrounds.

Ron Forse did the work.

I think, for the most part that the work turned out well,
with a few problems.

The bunkers have been a problem.

The greens are mostly elevated, to varying degrees, and the bunkers rather deep for Florida bunkers, exposing the faces to erosion from the heavy Florida rains, and prone to contamination from the ongoing edging/maintainance process.

Pine Tree is in the midst of trying to correct the problem, although I don't agree with the "process or methodology" they've chosen in their attempt at remediation.

I've always felt that the turnstile method of Governing,
with two year terms, is not the key to continuity and consistency.  Too often, clubs, their committees and boards tend to deny their legacy, chosing instead, to do it their way,
without any connection to the past.

Hopefully, the results will be very positive, time will tell.

[Mike_Cirba]

Tom;

Great story!  That's hysterical!  

Patrick;

Thanks for the info.  The reason I ask is that I was looking at pictures of their website, and the bunkering looked subtly different than it had in other pictures I've seen of it, particularly the 13th and 18th. I'm heading down that way next weekend, and might have to "lose my dog" to have a walk around.  

Is that poodle still around?

[TEPaul]

MikeC:

That was apparently a helluva unusual dog but if he was still around he would be in human years about 215 right now!

[Mike_Cirba]

So Tom;

Then I just tell them that I'm looking for my uniquely frisky, 215 year old poodle who has an old girlfriend somewhere near the dilapidated lot nearby?  

[TEPaul]

MikeC:

If you go down there and play give my best to the caddiemaster and mention my Dad-Jimmy Paul to him. I believe he's been there from the very beginning of Pine Tree!

[Mike_Cirba]

Tom;

I'll certainly do so!  

I may just get to have a look-see, as there aren't a lot of members around to play with in the heat of August, as I'm sure you know.  

Either way, I'll mention your dad to the caddie-master.    

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mike Cirba & TEPaul,

CHARLIE is still there.  He's been there since he helped sprig the golf course, and runs the golf course with a sixth sense.
There is a picture of Dick Wilson, Sam Snead, and CHARLIE
in the Men's locker/grille area, that's how well thought of he is, by the membership.

Mike, let me know when you're going to be there, and I'll arrange for you to play, if the project is complete and the course is open

[Jerry Kluger]

    I noticed that Joe Lee worked on Pine Tree and I wanted to note that a course recently opened near Frederick, Maryland called Musket Ridge which is a Joe Lee design.  I really enjoyed it and I think it is a fine example of a challenging and interesting course with many risk/reward options yet it is under 7,000 yards.  While it is new it is good shape, although the drought is getting to it a bit, and the fees are very reasonable.  
     I also understand that a biography of Joe Lee and his courses is being done through Golf Digest and with his long history in course design it could be very interesting and bring to our attention the work of someone who is well respected but is not as well known as Dye, Fazio, etc.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jerry K,

Joe Lee modified the 10th hole, from its original par 4 to a
par 5, with a large, three tiered green totally out of character, for Pine Tree,
Fortunately, Ron Forse altered the green to make it more in fitting with the other 18 greens at Pine Tree.
I think the hole still needs some fine tuning, or to be returned to a par 4, but for some reason the membership is enamored with par 72, so we'll have to wait and see on # 10.

[TEPaul]

Joe Lee is still alive and working?? Jeesus, that's amazing. Seems to me like when Dick Wilson died all the guys down there in Fla (like my Dad) who were so fond of Dick Wilson really latched onto Joe Lee afterwards. But man, that was a long time ago now!

[TEPaul]

#10 is the sharp dogleg left? As a par 4? That would be interesting! As a par 4 or a par 5, one could make a good case either way. Maybe it could be used as both or either/or!

[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul,

I've suggested that the hole play as a par 4/5.

Par 5 from the back left tee, and par 4 from the right tee behind the ladies tee.

Time will tell.

[GPO]

Well, here we go, after the initial exposure from the SI article, to my growing addiction with the website I've been searching for (dreaming of sounds too lame for my maiden run), I'm taking the plunge.  No need to say be gentle with me, from what I can see thus far, that would be an exercise in futility.

I'm a Floridian, born and raised, who has been lucky enough to play just about every  Florida course of note, certainly in South Florida area.  You fellas don't need me to re-enforce Pine Tree's excellence, but i think i can add a bit of background regarding their highly successfull restoration.

The members and board of directors entrusted with the legacy of any great golf course are shouldered with a tremendous resposibility to the past, present and future.  Examples of incredibly bad decision making are everywhere, in South Florida, LaGorce on Miami Beach is a perfect example, from great Donald Ross to typical Nicklaus.  Suffice it to say that those in power at Pine Tree accomplished the restoration eqivalent of the Tiger Slam.

A classic golf course  such as Pine Tree was in need of Restoration, especially greens complexes, regrassing and a commitment to using the pictures, blueprints etc. available from the initial construction as a strict road to follow.  I speak from experience when i say that there can be no better architect for a job like this than Ron Forse.

If I am ever allowed to post again, I'll share the story of the fantastic restoration Ron did at my home course in Miami Beach, Indian Creek.  But that's another story.  I played in the State Am at Pine Tree a couple of years ago and was blown away.  Once the club decides to embark on a tree program, it won't be difficult to imaging playing up behind a match some Saturday morn pitting Armour v. Sneed.  It is that type of course/layout that never lets you forget, from 1 tee to 18 green, that this is truly a classic golf course, exactly as it was in the "Golden Age of Architecture."  Sorry Geoff.

Be gentle, I promise a future not nearly as long winded,
gordon o'neil

[Ed_Baker]

Patrick;

Does the club still engage in that "Arbor day" silliness? it would seem that wholesale tree planting or donating would be very dangerous to a restored golf course.

[Mike_Cirba]

Gordon;

Thanks for the update on Pine Tree, as well as the "teaser" on Indian River.  It's great to hear how successful Ron Forse's restoration was, and I'm sure I speak for others when I ask if you tell the whole story about I.R. when you have the chance!  

[Patrick Mucci]

GPO,

What did you mean re the club embarking on a TREE program ?

I think Ron Forse did a very good job, though I wouldn't agree with you when you indicated that the club followed a STRICT restoration road.  But, I would say, the intent was to be true or sympathetic for the most part.

How do you feel about the loss of the double tiered green features at #3 and # 9, as well as the lack of a curative design for # 10 ?

Ed Baker,

Unfortunately, yes, but, I think the interest or focus may be changing/diminishing.

It is difficult to maintain continuity or break a tradition when the governance of the club hinges on two years terms in office.

I know of one great project instituted by Norm Ostrowski when he was green chairman that was sadly discontinued by his  predecessor, and never revived by later green chairman.
Momentum is easily lost on good or beneficial projects.
Conversely, bad ideas seem to fade with new regimes.

One has to hope that new members are attracted to the golf course and understand the value of preserving golf course.

Today, it's not so easy, anywhere !

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