"Wouldn't this mean that he really wasn't the architect of Pine Valley, but just essentially the guy who came up with the routing??"
Kalen:
Absolutely not. If you took the routing of Pine Valley in its entirety Crump came up with the majority of it over the entire course of the creation of Pine Valley. Harry Colt was responsible for coming up with the routing of some holes and parts of holes. Others had some routing input too.
It's my contention that a single routing could probably be made to look like up to twenty different golf courses simply because of vast differences in what I sometimes call the "designing up" process.
First of all, as far as everything I'm aware of Harry Colt did not design the greens of Pine Valley with the exception of perhaps the 5th and the 10th. If he was in any way responsible for more greens than that there is no record of that whatsoever.
Also a good deal of the bunkering schemes and fairway schemes on the golf course that were proposed by Colt were not really used by Crump. On those things Crump very much had his own ideas and it took him years to develop it throughout the course. Crump and his foreman, Jim Govan, were apparently totally inveterate "shot testers" on the ground and that alone was probably as much responsible for the "designing up" phase of the course as anything else.
Crump in the "designing up" phase of Pine Valley which took him five years (and still he wasn't finished) came up with ideas obviously on his own and as well as with the help of a number of people including his foreman, Jim Govan, and a number of others, certainly including Colt, Tillinghast, perhaps Macdonald, Travis and perhaps some of Crump's friends but the point is Crump was ALWAYS the final editor of Pine Valley's architecture and course and he most certainly did do a ton of editing.
That was of course until he died. At that point others were responsible for finishing off the course which, at that point, was routed but still in some areas (holes) in the "designing up" phase.
At that point (after Crump's death) the likes of the Wilsons, Flynn, perhaps Thomas, Fownes and most certainly Maxwell and Alison had some significant input as the course came to completion.
Wayno:
Personally, and firstly, I agree with you that what is man-made is that which I consider to be architecture---as apparently you do. I do not consider what is naturally occuring to be architecture. However, I am aware that many others do not share this definition or distinction.
On the other hand, I do have huge respect for architects who have the talent and imagination to simply use things well that are natural instead of either overlooking them or feeling the necessity to change things and make things.
And, secondly, I do not see why so many on here are confused by what you've been trying to say---including what you've been trying to say about Pine Valley and Sand Hills.
Perhaps those on here who are confused would be less confused if they simply stuck to golf courses and the things with which they have to do instead of trying to get into apples and apple pie, hamburgers and cheeseburgers and sandy beaches and rocky beaches.