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Mike_Cirba

Re:How do you prepare to play a world class (Doak 9.5 or 10) course?
« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2007, 11:17:51 AM »
I've got to agree with John K on the camera thing.  You aren't going to get any great pictures of a golf course while trying to play, and you aren't going to play well while trying to take pictures (and neither is anyone else).  Don't be a Wang.  There are plenty of great resources for pictures of the course which you can buy if you want to.


Tom,

I would agree with both you and John.

However, I have to ask.  Did you get all of your pictures in the CG while just touring and not playing?

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How do you prepare to play a world class (Doak 9.5 or 10) course?
« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2007, 11:20:05 AM »
I'm going the other way than Doak and JK.  Frankly, I'm surprised at TD.  

So, if you are a member of a great course, and you don't like your guests taking pictures, please don't invite me.  :-\ ::)

TD, GolfClubAtlas has been a wealth of good will for your courses, particularly in the pre-open and just open stage when posters here race to see your courses and then post pictures of their first encounters with your new courses.  Pac Dunes, before that Apache Stronghold, and there were Rawls, Stone Eagle and then the epic journey's of several of our posters down under to CK, Barneygoogles, StAB, all covered by enthusiasts proudly displaying their photos.  While you may be supremely confident of your work, and think that the golf mags cover them enough that enthusiasts shouldn't or don't need to participate in the buzz, using their cherished photos of a once in a lifetime opportunity, I think you are all wet on your notion.

How do you think a great resource on the internet such as the following can be shared with other enthusiasts.  Are you going to call these generous people that contributed these 1000s of wonderful course photos, "Wangs".  Which is insulting enough if you are asian...  :-[

http://www.golfarchitecturepictures.com/Pages/usa.html

If you can play and take a few photos or even many while walking along to your ball, which I have done quite efficiently over the years, I think that it is only logical you'd want to preserve your memories.  It is even more logical that an archie would like to see his course discussed in context to specific features captured on a photo where people can look and compare where something is sited along a FW or a particular feature of contour of a green or surrounds is placed or sited.  

I think you guys ought to go back and make an entry on that older thread, "what makes you a golf snob" if you have your panties in a wad over photos...  As a matter of fact, the nicest folk I know that have been kind enough to invite me to their private courses were flattered that I and anyone else were so excited that we would want to memorialise their offering and that special day.  

With such an attitude, I can't wait to miss VN, John.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2007, 11:27:25 AM by RJ_Daley »
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

John Kavanaugh

Re:How do you prepare to play a world class (Doak 9.5 or 10) course?
« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2007, 11:24:49 AM »
Dick,

Your bitch with me is moot...Victoria National is not a 9.5 or 10.

Brad Swanson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How do you prepare to play a world class (Doak 9.5 or 10) course?
« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2007, 11:26:32 AM »
(Man I'm channeling Tom Huckaby here), but I can see your point too Dick.  Photographic documentation certainly facilitates discussion here.  Strictly from a maximal enjoyment of a round standpoint, however, I have become to find it almost a chore to snap shot after shot on the course, especially when I go home and see that 90% of the shots don't come close to depicting what i saw.  Maybe I just suck as a photographer.  I'm going to try to free myself from the camera for awhile and just enjoy playing and see how that goes.  Chances are if I'm playing with another GCAer, they'll be packin' anyway, should I want a snapshot of the group for posterity.   ;D

Cheers,
Brad
« Last Edit: September 07, 2007, 11:28:38 AM by Brad Swanson »

Richard Boult

Re:How do you prepare to play a world class (Doak 9.5 or 10) course?
« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2007, 11:32:25 AM »
I don't think it's worth making an issue over the photo issue. Let it be an individual preference. I've found that I play really good rounds when I take photos - gets my mind of the game between shots. However, I've quit taking them since most any course I'd want to photograph has already been included in the online gallery of some professional's website.  I can admire theirs.

Tom Huckaby

Re:How do you prepare to play a world class (Doak 9.5 or 10) course?
« Reply #30 on: September 07, 2007, 11:35:21 AM »
Of course I see both sides re the photo issue.

 ;D ;D ;D

It's easy for me though as I suck so bad with photos, I never bother... and if I'm at a great course, I know either others will be taking pics, or I'll be able to find them somewhere if I really want them.


RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How do you prepare to play a world class (Doak 9.5 or 10) course?
« Reply #31 on: September 07, 2007, 11:39:30 AM »
I modified and added a bit more to my rant...

As far as preping to play something I  think will be great, irrespective of its Doak scale rating... I try to read if anything is written about it right here on GCA.com or go to their website, if they have one.  Like Greywalls, they often have a description of the hole by hole and sometimes the pros advice on how to play it.  

I don't know how many times I've been to a great course and there is all kind of time standing about on a tee waiting, or if with caddies, waiting to hit a shot.  Take BallyNeal for example.  We had eight people including caddies walking along on an almost empty course.  When waiting for the others, or them waiting for me to hit a shot, there is plenty of time to take a few practice swings, and reach in the pocket for a small digital, shoot what you want and move on.  

And, playing with great friends on such a special journey is great stuff that I wouldn't mind whoever is left behind to display on the old funeral board so those left know exactly what tripped my trigger when I was alive...  ::) 8)
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Steve Pozaric

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How do you prepare to play a world class (Doak 9.5 or 10) course?
« Reply #32 on: September 07, 2007, 11:51:39 AM »
Before going to the TC area recently, I was talking with my brother about taking pictures and expressing my frustration about taking pictures and getting distracted from the enjoyment of the round.  It seems that is a not uncommon issue and glad to know I am not alone.  

I took a alot of pics at Arcadia Bluffs, but that was facilitated by a 5.5 hr round, none at Kingsley (we played in 3 hrs not feeling rushed) and a few at CD.  I can take good pics, but it is hard to compose and get everything perfect when trying not to hold up play.
Steve Pozaric

Brian Laurent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How do you prepare to play a world class (Doak 9.5 or 10) course?
« Reply #33 on: September 07, 2007, 12:09:24 PM »
My new theory is not thinking about it too much.  A few years ago, I received an invite to play Marion East and got all worked up...it lead to the worst round of my adult golfing career.  
"You know the two easiest jobs in the world? College basketball coach or golf course superintendent, because everybody knows how to do your job better than you do." - Roy Williams | @brianjlaurent | @OHSuperNetwork

Jesse Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How do you prepare to play a world class (Doak 9.5 or 10) course?
« Reply #34 on: September 07, 2007, 01:07:56 PM »

I agree, no pictures.
Buy the yardage book(if possible) and grab a couple of scorecards.
My best advice is to take your time and soak it all in.
If playing a resort course, go early, eat breakfast, read the paper, hit balls, talk to some of the staff about the course.
After the round, hit a few more balls( if possible) and have a terrific meal with your friends.
Just make it a sun-up to sun-down experience.

You know the two rules if you are guest at a private course.
Follow your hosts lead and pay for everything before and after the round..

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How do you prepare to play a world class (Doak 9.5 or 10) course?
« Reply #35 on: September 07, 2007, 01:11:10 PM »
One point no one seems to have brought up is most people are only going to see this level of course ONE time. It doesn't make much sense IMO to not know something about the course beforehand so you know some of what to look for. Otherwise you will notice some stuff and go back and read about some cool features you wish you had noticed, but didn't and now your chance is lost.
    There is SO much to take in at CD alone, that after 10 rounds I still find lots of stuff I haven't noticed before. And that will surely be the case at most if not all courses at the 9.5-10 level.
    As far as prep goes I try to have an idea what the typical shots are going to be. For my trip Down Under this year I figured there would be lots of tight lies and bunkering galore in the Sandbelt that I would have to be able to get over (I'm normally a bumper of the ball). I worked on pitching the ball off tight lies over bunkers, and a 3/4 sand wedge shot that I could rely on when I got inside of a full wedge and chasing a 7 iron in wasn't an option.
    For CD in particular, you MUST, MUST, MUST keep your ball below the hole. On #1 short of the green is WAY better than being past the hole. You won't always know where below the hole is, but it is worth trying to notice.
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Tom Huckaby

Re:How do you prepare to play a world class (Doak 9.5 or 10) course?
« Reply #36 on: September 07, 2007, 01:13:51 PM »
Well sure Ed, it's this way for you because you play nothing BUT Doak 9s and above.   ;D

I guess how one approaches this depends on how into the study of architecture he is.  If that is one's bag, then yes, I supposed one really ought to study up and then see what MORE he can see besides what he already knows - one surely won't miss anything that way.

But if one is more into the fun and adventure of playing the game, I've come to believe that Rich's take is right on - it's way more fun to discover things as you see them for the first time.

Most here likely fall in the first camp.  It's scary to me I'm over in the dark side with Goodale.

 ;D

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How do you prepare to play a world class (Doak 9.5 or 10) course?
« Reply #37 on: September 07, 2007, 01:17:23 PM »
Remember the movie "Hoosiers", where the Hickory coach measures the goal - 10 feet, and the foul line - 15 feet.  Same as their small school gym.

Similar for a great golf course.  The hole is the same size, the clubs are the same, and it's still the same game.

Just my way to chill out and enjoy a great day.

You WILL be nervous on that first tee shot, but realize that almost everybody is nervous.   And nobody really cares what you shoot, as long as you keep up the pace.  Remember - the person that invited you WANTS you to have a wonderful time!

Tom Huckaby

Re:How do you prepare to play a world class (Doak 9.5 or 10) course?
« Reply #38 on: September 07, 2007, 01:20:34 PM »
That is a GREAT way to look at it, Dan.

It's funny, the first time I played Cypress after many many years, now being able to appreciate it (I played it once as a punk kid when it was just a venue for a match in my warped mind), I was so freaking out on 16 tee, it was the caddie that did the Hickory coach role for me... "Tom, it's just a golf hole.  Hit the ball like you have been and you'll hit the green."

Man that had an amazing calming effect.

So I LOVE THIS.  Every time since I've adopted the same attitude, and it really does work.

TH

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How do you prepare to play a world class (Doak 9.5 or 10) course?
« Reply #39 on: September 07, 2007, 01:35:07 PM »
Ideally, I like to get to a place early and have a spot of food, some ale and a bit of a chat before going out no matter where I play.  I would certainly skip time on the range or whatever to do so.

Cameras don't bother me a bit and I often carry one.  If a member told me not to take pix then thats fair enough.  Tom D, you have to remember that us regular folk don't get to play great courses all the time so be a little tolerant.  JakaB, I will definitely have my camera ready if I ever see you on the course!

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Mark Bourgeois

Re:How do you prepare to play a world class (Doak 9.5 or 10) course?
« Reply #40 on: September 07, 2007, 02:18:31 PM »
Walker Percy on seeing the Grand Canyon as a tourist:

"Why is it almost impossible to gaze directly at the Grand Canyon under these circumstances and see it for what it is – as one picks up a strange object from one’s back yard and gazes directly at it? It is almost impossible because the Grand Canyon, the thing as it is, has been appropriated by the symbolic complex which has already been formed in the sightseer’s mind.

"Seeing the canyon under approved circumstances is seeing the symbolic complex head on.  The thing is no longer the thing as it confronted the Spaniard; it is rather that which has already been formulated – by picture postcard, geography book, tourist folders, and the words Grand Canyon.

"As a result of this preformulation, the source of the sightseer’s pleasure undergoes a shift.  Where the wonder and delight of the Spaniard arose from his penetration of the thing itself, from a progressive discovery of depths, patterns, colors, shadows, etc., now the sightseer measures his satisfaction by the degree to which the canyon conforms to the preformed complex.

"If it does so, if it looks just like the postcard, he is pleased; he might even say, 'Why it is every bit as beautiful as a picture postcard!'  He feels he has not been cheated.  But if it does not conform, if the colors are somber, he will not be able to see it directly; he will only be conscious of the disparity between what it is and what it is supposed to be.

"He will say later that he was unlucky in not being there at the right time.  The highest point, the term of the sightseer’s satisfaction, is not the sovereign discovery of the thing before him; it is rather the measuring up of the thing to the criterion of the preformed symbolic complex.

"Seeing the canyon is made even more difficult by what the sightseer does when the moment arrives, when sovereign knower confronts the thing to be known.  Instead of looking at it, he photographs it.  There is no confrontation at all…."

Mark

Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How do you prepare to play a world class (Doak 9.5 or 10) course?
« Reply #41 on: September 07, 2007, 02:38:50 PM »
Dick,

Your bitch with me is moot...Victoria National is not a 9.5 or 10.

JB -

Don't sell your course short, it is a Franklin 9.5. I loved the place and hope to see it again soon. It is still in my top 10.
Mr Hurricane

John_Cullum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How do you prepare to play a world class (Doak 9.5 or 10) course?
« Reply #42 on: September 07, 2007, 02:39:18 PM »
I am just going to be myself and enjoy playing golf. I am going to try to play the best I can, although I might practice a little bit more in the weeks before if I can.

I am not going to worry about all of the club's rules. I expect if there is anything unusual, my host will let me know in advance. If they fail to let me know, I'll deal with that ad hoc. I can generally get by in polite society without alot of advance planning. And I'll bring plenty of cash, and at least 2 credit cards in case the club won't take cash, and I'll have a check in my pocket as a third option-it's just common sense.

If I don't feel comfortable just being myself, I won't go, and in no circumstances will I let my host have any notion that I went on the internet to find out how I should behave when I visit
"We finally beat Medicare. "

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:How do you prepare to play a world class (Doak 9.5 or 10) course?
« Reply #43 on: September 07, 2007, 02:56:50 PM »
Dick:

Did you ever see Caddyshack?  That's the Wang I was referring to.  Yes, he's a stereotype, but I didn't write his part.  I'll go back and read the rest of your rant now.

Mike C:  I doubt there are more than 1-2 photos in The Confidential Guide that were taken while I was actually playing.  In fact, I'll go look right now.  Good photos are nearly always taken early morning or late evening, without other groups in front of you (or especially behind you!).  I've just played with too many people over the years who were frazzled between trying to play and take pictures and everything, who at the end of the day probably didn't enjoy themselves nearly as much as they should have because they were trying to do too much at once.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:How do you prepare to play a world class (Doak 9.5 or 10) course?
« Reply #44 on: September 07, 2007, 03:03:43 PM »
Well, there are two pictures in the front section of my book that were taken while I was playing the course -- the first shows my friend Dave Oswald on the 12th at The Addington, and the second shows Charlie Raudenbush (then the assistant pro, now the head guy) over on the eleventh tee at Pine Valley while I went back to snap a picture of the tenth.  I was 19 then and still learning the ways of the world etiquette-wise.  And neither course wanted me to go back out and take pictures afterward, so they steered me toward taking my camera along while playing instead.

So there are probably a handful of other such pictures in the book.

Dick:

I understand the value of photos in gaining buzz and publicity for a new course -- probably better than most people do, in fact.  Maybe one or two of those new courses will get rated a 9 or 10 on the Doak scale.  But, places like Shinnecock and National and Cypress Point would generally prefer that you enjoy your golf, and they exist to be played, not to be photographed.  I'd guess that most of the members are used to it and it is possible to be discreet about taking pictures as you say ... but on the flip side, I'm sure you've seen people hold up the flow of play to take their pictures, and tell me that's not rude.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2007, 03:09:47 PM by Tom_Doak »

Tim Pitner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How do you prepare to play a world class (Doak 9.5 or 10) course?
« Reply #45 on: September 07, 2007, 03:11:06 PM »
My strategy has always been to go with as little information and as great a sense of adventure and camaraderie as possible.  If you are obsessed with what other people have said about the course you are far less likely to enjoy either the course or your playing companions (and vice versa).

I like this advice best.  

The other thing I would add is: pray (or practice so) you bring a reasonable game.  It's really not that much fun to spray the ball all over the place on any course.  Oh, and try not to f**k up the one hole you're most looking forward to playing.  
« Last Edit: September 07, 2007, 03:16:16 PM by Tim Pitner »

Norbert P

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How do you prepare to play a world class (Doak 9.5 or 10) course?
« Reply #46 on: September 07, 2007, 03:21:57 PM »
How do you prepare to play a world class (Doak 9.5 or 10) course?

 I start saving my money and not spending money on any food but oriental noodles and turkey dogs.

Actually, I try to learn a little bit about the area that I'm travelling to. With my trip to Barnbougle I researched other areas of interest outside of golf courses, e.g. Hinty Dunes, Bothwell Golf Museum, Wineglass Bay, Cockle Creek, wombats, echidnas, King William Pines, etc.  

Of course, researching other courses in the area is essential - thanks to y'all for help - whether they be on the charts or not.   Ratho Links rocks!

"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

G Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How do you prepare to play a world class (Doak 9.5 or 10) course?
« Reply #47 on: September 07, 2007, 03:51:50 PM »
I have to admit it, i don't know which courses are a 9.5 or a 10... anyone care to list a few to spare my ignorance?

but i reckon i've played a few, and i can tell you how i prepare for all good good courses:

a) drink at least 3 double kummels before you tee off (the warm up)
b) try the club's club sandwich (good indicator how good the course is)
c) make sure my first swing of the day is the first tee shot (don't want to waste my good swings/energy)
d) colour coordinate your clothes so you look good when you show your friends the photos afterwards
e) visit the whole course (see every bunker - i don't have to try too hard at this one)
f) stay up all night before drinking (so you can't sleep in - i started this tradition at augusta when the "augusta inn"'s AC unit broke in 95F)
g) have fun, enjoy yourself, get mad when you mess up, come home, kick the dog, then tell all your friends the next day how much fun you had and start counting the days until the next big outing.


Tried and tested.

Mike Golden

Re:How do you prepare to play a world class (Doak 9.5 or 10) course?
« Reply #48 on: September 07, 2007, 03:59:56 PM »
In a foresome it is impossible to take a picture without distracting play.  It is no different than walking along listening to voicemails except worse in that you can't walk and take pics...note: Do not bring a rangefinder and if you have to ask permission to do something, just don't do it.

I would disagree with that if the photographer has a good sense of golf.  One of my playing partners during my round at Cypress Point must have taken 100 photos, never held up play and was never in the way.  We all played really good golf that day and I got a full roll of lifetime memorabilia to boot.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2007, 04:00:56 PM by Mike Golden »

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How do you prepare to play a world class (Doak 9.5 or 10) course?
« Reply #49 on: September 07, 2007, 04:05:05 PM »
I cannot fathom being invited into someone's extremely nice home and whipping out a camera.  Same thing on the golf course.  There's a big difference on a public course where one is a licensee and not a guest.  Regardless I've quit taking camera's because someone else on this site has better pictures already and it's a hassle.  

So I go with,
1.  Be on time (sorry about VN Barney)
2.  Have abundant cash (various denominations) and credit card in hand (learned the hard way)
3.  Leave all electronics in the car
4.  Follow the Golden Rule
5.  Remember everything your momma taught you.
6.  Play strictly by the rules of golf.

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

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