[Scott_Burroughs]

Prodded by one of my playing partners, here are my pics
of "Gay" Dev. Emmet's Leatherstocking GC, opened in 1909.  
Mike Cirba, Craig Disher, and myself were all pleasantly
surprised with how good the course was (even with hearing
from Wayne very good things ahead of time), given it
doesn't get talked about all that much.  Of note, all 18
greens have multiple bunkers behind them, most of which are blind.

Approach to par 4 #1, nice left-to-right tilt of the green:


Tee shot on the tough (especially into a stiff headwind) par 4 #2 (note the car/road crossing the hole):



Well-uphill approach, likely used to be skyline, to a well-sloped green:


Long par 3 3rd with public road behind:


Reachable par 5 4th, with cross-bunkers:


Tee shot on par 4 6th:


Which happens to be very close to Otsego Lake and the Uber-Cape par 5 18th:


Tee shot on nasty-hard (esp. into stiff headwind) uphill par 4 7th:


Steeply uphill approach (Also likely used to be skyline and
crosses same road as before), with steep grass bunker guarding front right:


Landing in this bunker 50 yards short right is not advisable:


Nor is being in the grass bunker:




Tree-guarded tee shot on par 3 9th:


Double-penalty bunker short right:


Camera battery died...

Course web site, which features pics of the tee shot on the
par4 16th, the island tee of #18, and the drop-shot par 3
#12 (w/10 bunkers around the green):

http://www.otesaga.com/LGC/


Craig?  Your turn for pics!

[Mike_Cirba]

Scott,

Thanks!

Ok Craig...your turn!  


Folks...let's remember that this course opened in 1909, the same year as NGLA was coming into fruition.   Other than a brushing up by a Bob Cupp master plan over the past decade, it hasn't been touched.

I think that knowledge provides some good historical background when you look at the features of Leatherstocking and consider just how far advanced it was at that time.

[Joe Hancock]

Which happens to be very close to Otsego Lake and the Uber-Cape par 5 18th:

Fish on!!!!!


Sorry...you were saying?

Seriously, great pics and, Thank You!

Joe

[Kyle Harris]

Joe,

Having played many a round with Mike over the past few years, your one line may be the funniest thing I've read on GCA.com. I am still laughing out loud.

[Dan Herrmann]

We were going to play Leatherstocking on our way back to Philly from Rochester.  Unfortunately, it was raining like cats and dogs so we put it off for a bit.  

Thanks for the photos.  Makes me really want to get up there in the fall.

[Mike Sweeney]

It's official, Mike Cirba has lost his title to whitest legs on GCA!

[Mike_Cirba]

Hey Hey fellas...this thread is about OUTING Dev Emmett's Leatherstocking!

Your lame attempts at humor are very distracting to those of us trying to keep the GCA focus on architecture.  




 

[Brad Swanson]

Hey Hey fellas...this thread is about OUTING Dev Emmett's Leatherstocking!

Your lame attempts at humor are very distracting to those of us trying to keep the GCA focus on architecture.  




 

Mike,
   You are outing Dev Emmett at Leatherstocking GC?!  I knew my post on the switch hitter thread had some merit.

Cheers,
Brad

[paul cowley]

Discovering Leatherstocking while in my teens was the most influential experience that formed my desire to become a golf course designer.

I grew up one hour to the east on Muni courses, which were also extremely formative.....but I had nothing to contrast that experience with until I played Leatherstocking.

Its my favorite halcyon course.

[Brian Laurent]

Great pictures, Scott.  I've heard nothing but great things about the golf course.  Tough luck about the camera running out of juice...I look forward to seeing a few more pics.

[Mike_Cirba]

Discovering Leatherstocking while in my teens was the most influential experience that formed my desire to become a golf course designer.

I grew up one hour to the east on Muni courses, which were also extremely formative.....but I had nothing to contrast that experience with until I played Leatherstocking.

Its my favorite halcyon course.

Paul,

Please do tell more.  What were the things you saw at Leatherstocking that formed your interest in architecture?

[Evan Fleisher]

I know I've mentioned it here before...but Leatherstocking was the site of the first time I ever beat my father in a round of golf.  It was the summer of 1990 (I was 21) and we were on a two-man trek to scout grad schools I was to attend that Fall.

Not being an architectural "geek" back then I didn't really have the appreciation for it that I might have now...but knew even then that it was a pretty neat place, especially those last few holes.  I hope one day to get another crack at it...thanks for the pics and bringing back some very fond memories.  The course looks wonderful.

[Dan Boerger]

One of my favorite course in Central New York. Love those pictures.

[Craig Disher]

I completely agree with Scott and Mike's take on Leatherstocking. I also was impressed with how little the course has deteriorated over the years. The man-made features, bunkers and mounding, are crisp and well-defined as you can see from the earlier photos. The conditioning is the only thing that Dev wouldn't recognize. It was excellent.

Taking up where Scott's camera went to sleep...

The approach to the par 4 10th. The tiny green is so well hidden that you don't see it until you're almost on top of it. How could Emmett have thought this was a par 4 in 1909? It's as brutal as the 7th.



The off-camber fairway on the par 5 11th viewed from the tee.



Approaching the green which is in a hollow behind the last ridge. The picturesque bunkers on the left are severe but the correct approach is from the right.



The 11th green.



The 9th green viewed from the 12th tee.



As the sun drops behind the ridge on the right, the 12th green. It's almost invisible from the back tee so you have to hit your shot and run to the front tee to see the result.



The short par 4 13th. A massive, presumably natural, mound, sits in the middle of the fairway.



Looking from the 13th green back down the fairway at the mound.



The 13th green from the left. The grass bunker is about 15 feet deep and to the rear is a drop that goes on forever. It's just great topography for a short par 4.



The short par 4 14th - a deep swale cuts across the fairway; the green is narrow and very deep



Mike's blind approach from within 100 yards.



The par 5 15th. The fairway has a pronounced tilt similar to #11. A 2nd shot approach to a massive green is blind.



The green slopes away from the player and is surrounded by awkward ground.



The par 4 16th.



The par 3 17th. A straightforward carry over a marsh to a relatively flat green. After what went before, I found this hole less interesting. A more natural ending to the course would have been to go straight to the famous 18th tee and back to the hotel.  I wonder if Dev was happy with this hole.



The light was going fast so this was the best I could do on #18. The view from the tee to the green near the hotel. The tee box sits on a pile of rocks and old building debris in the middle of the lake. I'm sure there are those who would attempt the 300+ yard carry but the rest of us turn right and find a comfortable distance over the lake. An impressive hole now, it must have been astonishing in 1909.



My only complaint is that the hotel couldn't accommodate us for dinner immediately after the round.  

[Scott_Burroughs]

My only complaint is that the hotel couldn't accommodate us for dinner immediately after the round.  

Hey, the pizza at Brooklyn Sal's in town was pretty darn good.

And Craig did make that short birdie putt on #12.

It was fun trying different chips up the side of the hill on #11
to get the right spot to get it to roll down the hill (practically sideways) to the green.

[Mike_Cirba]

Well...I guess architectural comment on courses is passe here and soooo early 21st century.  

Perhaps I should jump on the "Rules and Ethics" thread at 420 posts or the "Snob" thread with 240?  

GCA jumped the shark?   Shoot...we're in summer re-run season!  

I'm thinking we should be labelling the architectural-related threads as OT.  

[John Foley]

Guys,

Thanks for the pics. Leathestocking is on top of the very short lists of places I need to get to in the fall (w/ a camera).

Did you get to see Otsego and is it worth it?

[Mike_Cirba]

John,

No, unfortunately there wasn't enough daylight left.   We played Teugega in the morning, grabbed a quick lunch, and then headed down to Cooperstown.

I had hoped to stop by Otsego because from aerials, it looks unchanged since it was built in 1894.  Maybe next time.

[Brad Swanson]

Mike,
   It appears as though they are adding trees when they should be removing them, your thoughts?

Cheers,
Brad

[Mike_Cirba]

Brad,

Like most courses, you could remove every single pine tree from Leatherstocking and improve it considerably.

In fact, I'd take every tree out but the specimens (and I'd chop of few of them too) and it would shine.  

I don't know if adding pines is part of the 10 year Master Plan put together by Bob Cupp, but so much of what they've been doing there seems right-on that I doubt it.

I'd also add that the fairways offer considerable width, and I only recall one time any of the three of us got into real tree problems.   Scott or Craig..do you recall any others?

[Joe Hancock]

Well...I guess architectural comment on courses is passe here and soooo early 21st century.  

Perhaps I should jump on the "Rules and Ethics" thread at 420 posts or the "Snob" thread with 240?  

GCA jumped the shark?   Shoot...we're in summer re-run season!  

I'm thinking we should be labelling the architectural-related threads as OT.  

Mike,

As you know, there is nothing more taboo on GCA than to attempt any kind of architectural discussion based on pictures alone. Without multiple play in varying conditions (also known as "heavy lifting") one isn't qualified to comment.....

Sorry for my one and only smart aleck comment on this thread, but I have neither seen nor played this course, although I'd like to.

Joe

p.s. From the pictures, it appears there is a lot of holes routed with sidehill demeanor.  

[John Foley]

Tuegega was very nice. Hope we get to see that write up

You guys should have made it to Yahnandasis in Utica, which is very very good. I'll write up some notes & post some pics for there

[Mike_Cirba]

Joe,

I have long contended that if we didn't "judge" courses by pictures, there wouldn't be a hell of a lot of discussion here.

I'm starting to think that if we take away OT threads, that prophecy would be correct.  

[Doug Braunsdorf]

Brad,

Like most courses, you could remove every single pine tree from Leatherstocking and improve it considerably.

In fact, I'd take every tree out but the specimens (and I'd chop of few of them too) and it would shine.  

I don't know if adding pines is part of the 10 year Master Plan put together by Bob Cupp, but so much of what they've been doing there seems right-on that I doubt it.

I'd also add that the fairways offer considerable width, and I only recall one time any of the three of us got into real tree problems.   Scott or Craig..do you recall any others?

Mike,

Did you feel, at any time on the course, that the trees really came into play on any of the holes?  

What did you think of hole #6, with the creek up the right protected by trees?  What was your play there?  

Standing on #9 tee, the trees do encroach on the right, but it is a busy road...almost a necessary evil for safety.  

Did you think the trees came in too close on the left of #10?  

Otherwise, I can't think of any examples where I felt there were too many trees.  

What about you?  

[Brad Swanson]

Doug,
   Are the small trees on the left side of 5, 6, and 7 necessary.  They look like recent plantings that will over time really encroach (this from photographic analysis alone).

   On another note, the terrain looks outstanding as far as variety with sidehill/uphill/downhill variety, and the green sizes look varied (the photo of 9 green from #12 is very pleasing to my eye).

Cheers,
Brad

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