[John Kavanaugh]

Can anyone name a shot at the Bandon Resort where a caddie is vital for the first time player to complete the stroke?  Given modern mechanical distance measuring devices has the role of the caddie become nothing but that of a bag carrier.  Please tell me I'm how I am wrong.  Where is the quirk and where might it have been done quirkier if this was not a public resort with all the limitations that come in that package.

[Peter_Herreid]

In case anyone can't read what comes later, I don't feel that caddies are VITAL to any shot at the Bandon Resort, but here are two where they could be particularly helpful the first time one encounters these particular scenarios...

#5  Pacific Dunes--in many, many instances the proper play to all front and many middle hole locations is to bounce/feed a shot off the fairway and/or mounds short left of the green

#8 Pacific Dunes--hole locations to the middle right and most of the back of the green are just begging to be accessed by playing off the hill to the right of the green, rather than on the direct route...

once a player has encountered these, subsequent playings of those two situations should be self-evident...

These are just two very specific scenarios off the top of my head...

Again, caddy not VITAL to  either, but those playing lines could increase the enjoyment potential...

[JESII]

The best caddies (like I was  ) deal in results, not your own personal illusion...Bandon likely, just like anywhere else I bet, has caddies that can convince you that a flat no wind shot plays longer than the yardage for one reason...so that you hit enough club for once...

Has a caddy ever talked a guy into less club?

[JohnV]

#7 at Bandon Dunes is definitely a place for a caddie.  Anyone walking onto that tee for the first time would probably aim 30 yards to the right of the best line of play.

[JC Jones]

Rangefinder....is that like using a cheater line?

[Phil McDade]

The best caddies (like I was  ) deal in results, not your own personal illusion...Bandon likely, just like anywhere else I bet, has caddies that can convince you that a flat no wind shot plays longer than the yardage for one reason...so that you hit enough club for once...

Has a caddy ever talked a guy into less club?

Sully:

Why, exactly, is that? I've noticed that, as well. Do folks just continually over-estimate their ability to hit it the distance they think they can? Genuinely curious re. your thoughts/experience with this...

[Mike Wagner]

#7, #9, #10, #14, #17 for line of flight at Bandon.  More than just a bag carrier, I would HOPE they can give immediate yardages (if they're good) so they can keep up the speed of play.

[JESII]

The best caddies (like I was  ) deal in results, not your own personal illusion...Bandon likely, just like anywhere else I bet, has caddies that can convince you that a flat no wind shot plays longer than the yardage for one reason...so that you hit enough club for once...

Has a caddy ever talked a guy into less club?

Sully:

Why, exactly, is that? I've noticed that, as well. Do folks just continually over-estimate their ability to hit it the distance they think they can? Genuinely curious re. your thoughts/experience with this...

Phil,

It's not really unfeasible to think a guy who plays twice a month will remember the one 7 iron in the last 100 that actually went 150 and assume that is his 7 iron yardage...a caddy for leisure golf should focus on three things: 1) help his guy have fun 2) play well and 3) play fast...

You need to think strategically through the players ability to help him play well. Telling him he cannot possibly get a 7 iron there is not the best way to help him have fun...little white lies are not the worst crime of the day, I don't think...

[JSlonis]

Phil,

Like Sully answered, it seems as if the average golfer only remembers the maximum iron distance they ever hit a particular club.

Years ago, I played a few rounds with the VP of one of our Insurance carriers.  He was a decent player, but I would bet that he hit 98% of his approach shots short of the hole and a large percentage of that, short of the green itself.  After a couple days of watching him try to save par from short of nearly every green, I had to speak up and try to help him.

[David Lott]

After a couple days of watching him try to save par from short of nearly every green, I had to speak up and try to help him.

And how did that go?

[Brian Noser]

I vote for 18 on Trails as one that I could have used help on. the tee shot looked awkward to me just did not set up well. I was confused on where to go where to aim and what club to hit.

[Doug Wright]

It was a good thing we had a caddy the first time we played #9 at Pacific Dunes. We had no earthly idea where to hit the tee shots--or where the hole was, for that matter.

Seems like the tendency would be to hit the tee shot on #6 too far left as well.

And what is the line of charm on #1 and #2 if you've never played them before?  

[Tim Bert]

I don't think vital is the right choice of words.  There are several holes throughout the resort where a good caddie can be extremely helpful if a player has never seen the courses, read everything there is to read about the courses online, etc.  Especially for a casual resort player that might not be thinking about where to hit the ball off the tee for position.  I can't think of any course where the caddie is VITAL (unless the course makes it so by requiring a caddie to play the course.)  Important or helpful perhaps, but not necessary.

Shots that come into mind:
#5 PD
#8 PD approach
#9 PD tee shot
guidance on the walk from #11 to #12 PD

#4 BT tee shot and approach
#18 BT tee shot

#4 BD tee shot
#7 BD tee shot
#10 BD tee shot
#13 BD second shot

Plus the caddies are full of good advice on bump'n'run shots and putting from off the green for the first time visitor.

[Dan Smoot]

Can anyone name a shot at the Bandon Resort where a caddie is vital for the first time player to complete the stroke?  Given modern mechanical distance measuring devices has the role of the caddie become nothing but that of a bag carrier.  Please tell me I'm how I am wrong.  Where is the quirk and where might it have been done quirkier if this was not a public resort with all the limitations that come in that package.

I would vote for Pacific Dunes No. 9 tee shot.  If you have never climbed that dune before, you don't have a line you can be sure of.  I first played that hole with a 40 mph wind in my face.  Under those circumstances, if you chose a line a little to far to the right, you can find yourself down a severe slope on the other side of the fairway.  Luckily, I made it.  The second time, without an excuse, I did hit too far right.  A caddy would have been a great help the first time because I stood there not quite sure what was up there.

[Doug Siebert]

The best caddies (like I was  ) deal in results, not your own personal illusion...Bandon likely, just like anywhere else I bet, has caddies that can convince you that a flat no wind shot plays longer than the yardage for one reason...so that you hit enough club for once...

Has a caddy ever talked a guy into less club?

I've had caddies talk me into a club or two less on more than one occasion, and of course the reverse.  Sometimes I listen, sometimes I don't.  I've got a pretty good idea how far I hit my irons and if it comes down to it I'd rather be confident with the wrong club than uncertain with the right one.

My caddie tried to talk me into a 5 iron on Carnoustie's 16th, I stuck with the 4 I'd selected because even that seemed like too little for 245 yards in a strong crosswind though I knew it wouldn't play anything like that distance since I had to land it short of the green and run it on.  The 4 iron worked out fine as I aced it, but to be fair it was really motoring when it went out of sight so it had to have hit the pin harder than Sergio's ball did last month so maybe it was a 5 iron shot after all

The opposite happened at Prestwick last time I was there.  I'd hit over into the left corner of the fairway on the Cardinal and had about 235 yards to go, with a 35-40 mph following wind.  I was thinking 6 iron, my caddie told me it was an 8.  I couldn't believe it, and wanted to compromise on a 7 but he was really insistent it was an 8 so I figured I'd give him the benefit of the doubt and see how good he really was.  But I couldn't help giving it a bit extra since I didn't think I had enough club, and I ended up in a little hollow just over the back.  When we found my ball there my caddie said "why'd you swing so hard?  I gave you the right club!"

[JSlonis]

After a couple days of watching him try to save par from short of nearly every green, I had to speak up and try to help him.

And how did that go?

Actually not that bad, since I knew him pretty well.  Heck, he was VP of an Insurance Company and was good at analyzing numbers, I figured I'd go with that approach.  To see the stats spelled out in front of you is hard to argue against.

For some reason, he was quite surprised, but eventually saw the light.  Perhaps he thought the grooves were worn out on his wedges for another reason.

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