[John Kirk]

I'm less charitable about guys like Ron.  I see someone who deludes himself about his abilities, shies away from a challenge, and lies about his scores.

I strive to be rigorously honest and objective about all things.  Does Ron lie about his electrical work to make himself look good to the client?  Just wondering.

Similarly, Jerry, vanity handicaps, and especially sandbaggers, irritate me.  

 

[astavrides]

 he is allowed to have an opinion, but just how absurd are opinions allowed to get when they are as misinformed and un-researched as his?

You can not and should not research opinions if you want them to be your own.

They can still be your opinions even if you researched others opinions.  In fact, that would make your opinion even more valid.  It just wouldnt be something you thought of yourself.

[Tim Pitner]

I'm in the camp of thinking that "golfers" like Ron are a lost cause and nothing (further) should be done to cater to them or try to "educate" them.  

Ron (minus the cheating) reminds me of golfers in the Denver area who play Riverdale Knolls.  There's a great course, Riverdale Dunes, that is part of the same facility, no more than a few hundred yards away and, yet, some people (namely, the men's club) continually ignore the Dunes and religiously play the Knolls, a blah, nothing course next door to the Dunes, one of the best publics in Colorado.  It just makes no sense to me and I'm resigned to never understanding it.  

[John Kavanaugh]

 he is allowed to have an opinion, but just how absurd are opinions allowed to get when they are as misinformed and un-researched as his?

You can not and should not research opinions if you want them to be your own.

They can still be your opinions even if you researched others opinions.  In fact, that would make your opinion even more valid.  It just wouldnt be something you thought of yourself.

as,

Please give me an example of how research helps someone form an opinion of what they like.  Would you say it is best to read movie reviews before or after seeing the show?

[George Pazin]

Would it hurt one to be familiar with other works of Shakespeare before seeing one of his plays?

[BCrosby]

Ron (minus the cheating) reminds me of golfers in the Denver area who play Riverdale Knolls.  There's a great course, Riverdale Dunes, that is part of the same facility, no more than a few hundred yards away and, yet, some people (namely, the men's club) continually ignore the Dunes and religiously play the Knolls, a blah, nothing course next door to the Dunes, one of the best publics in Colorado.  It just makes no sense to me and I'm resigned to never understanding it.  

Tim -

How would you describe the differences in the two courses?

Bob

[John Kavanaugh]

Would it hurt one to be familiar with other works of Shakespeare before seeing one of his plays?

I did not need or do I know anything about Shakespeare to enjoy Claire Danes in Romeo and Juliet.  On the other hand I can not remember enjoying anything else the guy has done...and I am sure I have enjoyed things I didn't even know were based on his work.  

Please give me a specific example in your life where being told something is good made you change your mind about something you did not like.

[John Kavanaugh]

Let's just say that the movie The Godfather was based on Hamlet.  Do you think I would enjoy the movie more if it was and I knew this going in...I can't see how sitting in a pool of my own self satisfation would enhance an entertainment experience.

[astavrides]

 he is allowed to have an opinion, but just how absurd are opinions allowed to get when they are as misinformed and un-researched as his?

You can not and should not research opinions if you want them to be your own.

They can still be your opinions even if you researched others opinions.  In fact, that would make your opinion even more valid.  It just wouldnt be something you thought of yourself.

as,

Please give me an example of how research helps someone form an opinion of what they like.  Would you say it is best to read movie reviews before or after seeing the show?

research (other than a taste test) is not as important for matters of taste (e.g. coke vs. pepsi).  On the other hand, politcal opinions, for example, should be informed by facts as well as the opinions (that you may not have thought of before) of others.  I guess golf course preferences lie somewhere in between.  

[Jon Spaulding]

TN; you're friend reminds me of a saying we use for some of our customers: "don't try to educate the pig....you'll waste your time and you'll annoy the pig."

Having said that, I took group of "core" co-workers to RC late last year. Furnished as much local knowledge as I could....based on minimal personal experience. At the end of the round, the consensus was that RC was "the coolest course they had ever seen". One of the fellows returned to RC, from a distance, to see it again. I can only imagine their opinion if one of the locals (TN, Simper, et al) taught the class for a 3.5 hour time frame!

I prefer joining up with students over the proverbial pig. On the receiving end, few things are more enjoyable than playing an interesting course with a good teacher.

[Tim Pitner]

Ron (minus the cheating) reminds me of golfers in the Denver area who play Riverdale Knolls.  There's a great course, Riverdale Dunes, that is part of the same facility, no more than a few hundred yards away and, yet, some people (namely, the men's club) continually ignore the Dunes and religiously play the Knolls, a blah, nothing course next door to the Dunes, one of the best publics in Colorado.  It just makes no sense to me and I'm resigned to never understanding it.  

Tim -

How would you describe the differences in the two courses?

Bob

Bob,

I apologize--I don't have much time now.  I'll give you a brief overview.  Riverdale Dunes is a Pete Dye course (I believe Perry Dye and Tom Doak did most of the work).  Although I don't care for the term, it is a "links-style" course with some interesting, artificial dunes/mounding and long, native grasses for rough.  The fairways are wide; from the blue tees, it plays to about 6400 yards (the blacks are around 7000); and, especially in the fall and winter, it can play pretty firm and fast.  It's the sort of course where you can easily play to your handicap or you can blow up.  I've shot my career-best round out there, but I've also shot many forgettable scores.  

The Knolls is just a non-descript course.  It's more of a parkland design but certainly isn't tree-lined.  It has a few trees, mostly spread out, and some canals bisecting the fairways that are somewhat hidden.  It's a run of the mill, municipal-type course, albeit in better condition than the Denver munis, for example.  It's cheaper than the Dunes, although not by much, and may be more attractive to senior or weaker players, although the Dunes is really quite playable, especially from the white tees.  

Here's a link:  http://www.riverdalegolf.com/

I hope that helps.

[George Pazin]

Please give me a specific example in your life where being told something is good made you change your mind about something you did not like.

Lots of posters who've played golf with you tell me you're a great guy.

 

[Kirk Gill]

I was out at Ballyneal and since I returned I have yet to meet a golfer, I mean any golfer, from duffer to pro, who had any idea that there was great golf in Colorado that was not in the Rockies.  Try mentioning golf and Nebraska and they laugh at you - the golfing world is basically uninformed and it is my opinion that they will never learn otherwise.

It's pretty easy to be uninformed about golf in Eastern Colorado and in the sand hills of Nebraska. To my knowledge there is one public course of any renown (Wild Horse) that is in that part of the country. Unless you can become "informed" by noticing the position of Sand Hills or Ballyneal (or Dismal River?) on various top-100 lists, most golfers can't know what's out there, as they'll never have a chance to play there, or watch someone else play there on television. I find myself continually "turning on" my friends to Ballyneeal, via the terrific writeup on this site. Even long-time Coloradoans are amazed, and pleased, that such a course graces our state. That said, there is an avid golfer of my acquaintance who grew up in northern New Jersey who, in a recent conversation, allowed that he'd never heard of Pine Valley. That DID strike me as uninformed.  

But what's worse to me than a fellow golfer displaying ignorance of the sport (or at least expressing opinions about the game that I can't agree with) is when someone who seems to be a perfectly good golfing partner expresses an opinion on some broader issue that I find repellent. A guy I used to work with and with whom I'd played probably a dozen rounds decided one day on the course to confide in me his feelings regarding a race of people he designated repeatedly with the "n" word. He seemed amazed that I didn't share his opinion. I tried arguing the point with him for a while, but it dawned on me that there was no argument I could make that was going to change his mind, and no statement that he could make that would allow me to forget the ugliness I had heard coming out of his mouth. I think I could probably continue playing with someone who cheated on their handicap, I just wouldn't play them for money - but I never golfed with that guy again. For what that's worth.

[astavrides]

Let's just say that the movie The Godfather was based on Hamlet.  Do you think I would enjoy the movie more if it was and I knew this going in...I can't see how sitting in a pool of my own self satisfation would enhance an entertainment experience.

Richard Feynman uses the example that you can appreciate the beauty of a rose, but if you understand the science of photosynthesis, why the rose is red, why it smells, why it has thorns, you can appreciate it on another level.  And that doesnt detract from its beauty.

[corey miller]

I happened to speak with Tommy today and he passed the phone to his playihng friend Ron.  In addition to not liking bumps and rolls in the greens, he also doesn't like rolls in the fairways because it is not like that at the driving range, and how would you ever be able to practice.

I think Tommy N has understated the problem.

[Dan Kelly]

Jerry

Tommy is an electrician - he would have been 'shocked', not 'surprised'.

James B

Sounds more like he may have been...revolted......

 

Maybe, the next time he's shocked (and/or revolted), Tommy should take a seat, close his eyes, and chant this simple mantra:

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

(Resistance is futile, Tommy.)

[John Kavanaugh]

Let's just say that the movie The Godfather was based on Hamlet.  Do you think I would enjoy the movie more if it was and I knew this going in...I can't see how sitting in a pool of my own self satisfation would enhance an entertainment experience.

Richard Feynman uses the example that you can appreciate the beauty of a rose, but if you understand the science of photosynthesis, why the rose is red, why it smells, why it has thorns, you can appreciate it on another level.  And that doesnt detract from its beauty.

Sometimes learning why something smells detracts from its enjoyment.

[Kalen Braley]

I would agree that its annoying when someone states they are really into something and don't even have a basic background to it.

But as it relates to the general masses, I think the general concept found here at this site can be found with just about anything.  For example, I'm really into micro-brews and really good craft beers and I don't understand why the vast masses of people drink Miller, Coors, Bud or any of that swill.  But I realize I have a very minority position and don't hold it against them.  

And I'm sure the same kind of hardcore people exist out there for automobiles, various food products, clothing, electronics, etc, etc, etc.  In my mind its all about finding something that blows your hair back and sparks your interest.  While you try to educate those you can, just realize few will ever get it.  

And when many of you in here go buy that 6 pack of yellow pee they call beer at your local supermarket, just know that I'll be disapproving...  

[Rich Goodale]

Let's just say that the movie The Godfather was based on Hamlet.  Do you think I would enjoy the movie more if it was and I knew this going in...I can't see how sitting in a pool of my own self satisfation would enhance an entertainment experience.

Richard Feynman uses the example that you can appreciate the beauty of a rose, but if you understand the science of photosynthesis, why the rose is red, why it smells, why it has thorns, you can appreciate it on another level.  And that doesnt detract from its beauty.

Sometimes learning why something smells detracts from its enjoyment.

As one of my oldest and dearest Irish friends often asks...

Q.  "Why do farts smell?"  

A.  "For the benefit of the deaf."

[James Bennett]

Jerry

Tommy is an electrician - he would have been 'shocked', not 'surprised'.

James B

Sounds more like he may have been...revolted......

 

Maybe, the next time he's shocked (and/or revolted), Tommy should take a seat, close his eyes, and chant this simple mantra:

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

(Resistance is futile, Tommy.)

Tommy said watt?

[Joe Hancock]

Jerry

Tommy is an electrician - he would have been 'shocked', not 'surprised'.

James B

Sounds more like he may have been...revolted......

 

Maybe, the next time he's shocked (and/or revolted), Tommy should take a seat, close his eyes, and chant this simple mantra:

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

(Resistance is futile, Tommy.)

Tommy said watt?

All these one-liners....we should go on the circuit......

Ba-da-bum

[James Bennett]

Joe

I think you would be a chAMP on the circuit.  

For our group act, I nominate Tommy as the CONDUCTOR.

[Joe Hancock]

Joe

I think you would be a chAMP on the circuit.  

For our group act, I nominate Tommy as the CONDUCTOR.

Why, James, I've never been so insulated, and I have half a notion to call the coppers!.........

I'm switching off now...

Joe

[James Bennett]

Joe

you sound a bit AC/DC there (Tommy has never seemed AC/DC to me).

Actually, Ron sounded a bit AC/DC about RC.  Well that seemed to be his CURRENT view.

good-bye Joe - this was fun but definitely OT

James B

[Tommy_Naccarato]

I have to make this quick because I have to leave for work, but I have partied with AC/DC backstage before around 1979 or 80 at the National Orange Show fairgrounds in San Berdoo (Bernadino). (Post Bon Scott)

They were very wicked.....

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