[JR Potts]

What is the proper way to set up a course for a Club Championship?  Do you set it up at the tips, the member tees or shorter than that?

At my Club, our Golf Committee is a bunch of 50-60 year olds that cannot compete with the length of the younger generation.  As a result, they set up the 7600 hundred yard course course around 6700 hundred yard to give them a chance.  

I call it bull shit...I'm interested to hear what others think.

[Joe Hancock]

Ryan,

There isn't a universal answer. A lot depends on the architecture, the current conditions and the forecasted weather. Aside from that, I would think the event would be flighted according to handicap, and different sets of tees should be employed.

Joe

[John Kirk]

Hello Ryan,

At Pumpkin Ridge, we have always played the blue tees the first two days, about 6500 yards, during which the seniors championship is held concurrently.  Then on Sunday we play the blacks, about 7000 yards.  This year, after some discussion, a blue/black combination of about 6700 yards was used the first two days.

I think the younger guys should have an advantage, and believe courses should be set up at 6800-7100 yards for a good club champion.  On the other hand, places like Crystal Downs and Pasatiempo, each around 6500 yards, should just be played from the tips, and I would guess an older player has a better chance of winning there.

[JR Potts]

Joe:

I see the overall policy behind playing it short as there are many flights playing the course.  However, wouldn't you think that, at the very least, the Championship Flight would play the course from a position that, again, at the very least, is used on an average week day or weekend?  

This is not unexpected given some of the recent Golf Commitee politics but it really does undermine both the spirit of competition and the integrity of the event...of course, in my opinion.

[Joe Hancock]

Ryan,

Let me ask this: if you were in the Championship Flight, and you came upon a par 3 hole that was set up a tee forward from normal, and maybe changing the angle to take the high level golfer out of his comfort range...would that be trickery and unfair?

Joe

[JR Potts]

Hello Ryan,

At Pumpkin Ridge, we have always played the blue tees the first two days, about 6500 yards, during which the seniors championship is held concurrently.  Then on Sunday we play the blacks, about 7000 yards.  This year, after some discussion, a blue/black combination of about 6700 yards was used the first two days.

I think the younger guys should have an advantage, and believe courses should be set up at 6800-7100 yards for a good club champion.  On the other hand, places like Crystal Downs and Pasatiempo, each around 6500 yards, should just be played from the tips, and I would guess an older player has a better chance of winning there.

John:  I guess my inquiry is more limited to a golf committee intentionally altering the set-up so as to give themselves and their cronies the best possible chance.  Crystal Downs and Pasatiempo are played at that length because that's all there is to the course. Here, we're playing it shorter than when I would play it on any given day.

[A.G._Crockett]

I can't really imagine a club tournament of any kind played at 7600 yards.  Unless your club has an incredible number of plus handicaps, that doesn't sound like much fun at all, though I don't buy your assumption that a 50 yr. old couldn't compete at that distance.  It just isn't very interesting golf.  

There are few, if any, pro tournaments (and NONE below the PGA Tour level) played at anything like 7600, are there?  I think 6700 is a good yardage, generally speaking.  It is long enough to reward long hitters, but doesn't eliminate the guys who hit it 250 off the tee, but excel in other parts of the game.  

If you and the other members of the younger generation are really better players, then 6700 yds. won't be a bit of a problem.  If you can only win at 7600, then you need to go to work on your short games, and meanwhile try to win the long drive competition during the tournament; it sounds like the old guys will dominate the closest-to-the-pin!

[John Kirk]

Ryan,

How long do you and your buddies play the course during the summer?

Here at Pumpkin we usually play the blues, and about once a week play the whole course.  It's tough back there (74.6/141 or so), mostly because it's tight off the tee.  Lots of two stroke mistakes out there.

[C. Squier]

Ryan, I would think the Championship flight should be played a little farther back in your home yard.  Especially considering this time last year they were back there.....I would've imagined the committee would've emulated that setup for no other reason than posterity's sake.

CPS

[Joe Hancock]

Ryan,

I'm just trying to make some discussion out of it, but the Championship Flight out to be somewhat normal, as far as back tee placements are concerned, unless it has been extremely wet or some other odd circumstance.

Joe

[Bill Gayne]

I think the make up of the membership should be considered. At a "Golf" club such as Oakmont or Jackie Burke's Champions than the club championship should be a maximum test. While at most of your run of the mill "country" clubs, I don't see anything wrong with playing a shorter course and bringing as many players as possible.

[Scott Stambaugh]

We set up our championship flight to play from a combination set of tees at 6,500 yards.  Other flights played from the men's tees at 6,300 yards.  The seniors and 'super' seniors played from a combination set of tees at 6,000 yards.

The thought behind it was to get more members to participate.  Some of the guys who are not of senior age do not wish to play the course from the tips.  There was also more participation among some of the older seniors, who have taken quite a liking to the combo set at about 6,000 yards.

Scott

 

[C. Squier]

I think the make up of the membership should be considered. At a "Golf" club such as Oakmont or Jackie Burke's Champions than the club championship should be a maximum test. While at most of your run of the mill "country" clubs, I don't see anything wrong with playing a shorter course and bringing as many players as possible.

The top flight at any run of the mill CC will still be lower single digits.  Why not stick the top flight where they would usually play and ratchet down the tees as you get into the higher flights?  The top flight playing at 6700 yards at Medinah doesn't make a whole lot of sense.  I'm not saying 7600 is the answer, but probably a lot closer to 7000-7100.  

Speaking of Champions, here's a really good article about their Club Championship.  My apologies if its a repost.

http://www.travelandleisure.com/tlgolf/articles/golf-its-all-about-the-game/

Clint

[Craig Sweet]

We set up the Montana Open to play somewhere less than the 7100 yards we could play at...I guess it would be something like the blue/black combo tees...

So,why would we set up the club championship to play longer than the MO?

I really like that idea of shorter tees for the first two days for the Senior Chanpionship and then some length for the final day for the bombers..

[Steve Lang]

 

Ryan, You're sounding like a BombSquadGolf type!  No whining!

At WCC, Champ flight goes for three days from tips, other flights two days from blues & whites as hdcps go up..  same tees as most play + to 5 at tips, 6-10 at 2nd in tees, 11+ at 3rd set of tees..

Problem I always have had is tricked up greens (double cut and rolled) only seen during member guest and club champ times..  fun turned to disaster for most.

[Dean Paolucci]

Technology has taken creativity out of the game.  I can say for certain that the power players tend to have fits with short holes or short set ups in general.  We recently hosted a Sr Amateur qualifier at 6000 yards and only 2 players out of 75 finished with scores better than par 71.

http://www.mgagolf.org/mga/tournaments_frame.html

When the power game is left to its own devices it takes many out of the competition.  At more modest distances the best player wins, not the longest hitter.  At 7400 yards many players can't decide what to hit.  At 6000 yards the power players can't decide what to hit.  Executing shots with precision has always and will always have a place in the game.   The underlying sentiment at a country club is to have as much participation as possible.  Public opinion is not on your side when the course is not set up at 7400 yards.  It sounds like posturing to suit a particular competitors game.  Everyone still needs to get the ball in the hole in the fewest strokes.

[JR Potts]

Ryan,

How long do you and your buddies play the course during the summer?

Here at Pumpkin we usually play the blues, and about once a week play the whole course.  It's tough back there (74.6/141 or so), mostly because it's tight off the tee.  Lots of two stroke mistakes out there.

We usually play it around 7300 yards.

[Adam Clayman]

Ryan appears to be against everyone having a chance versus only giving a select few a chance.

Which one is Bullshit?

[JR Potts]

Adam:  Why don't we play Championships of all kinds at 6400 so as to give the maximum amount of people a chance?  This weeks PGA would be great, wouldn't it, if we shortened the course to around that distance so that Tom Watson could win.  Granted, he's not nearly as capable as the rest of the field but with a shorter track, he will have a better chance.  

Isn't the ability to hit a long iron or a driver a skill that should be challenged?  Isn't proficiency in that something that should be rewarded and tested in a Club Championship?  

And Adam, it is the Club Championship...only a select few should have a chance...you know, the best players.  But I guess we should just emasculate every course to give the less talented a chance at posting a decent score.

[Chris Cupit]

Ryan,

I think you are right on.  Setting up a course shorter than what is routinely played all year is BS and makes no sense.

I would think that when a club is trying to identify its best player that means playing the course that on balance is near where the best players play during the year.

I wouldn't go and make it the hardest/longest three days of the year as that isn't a reflection of the course.  But to shorten the course just so others may "feel" competitive??

If the course was being shortened hundreds of yards from what the scratch players normaly play--that's sad.

6700 when you are used to playing 7200 is a dramatic difference and unfortunately even for many "club players" 6700 can allow them to either play the course without ever having to hit driver or allow them to hit wedge into almost every hole.

I will set up my Championship flight on the back tees, where they play most of the time (except winter) at 7005 yards or so.  Of course, depending on hole locations, weather, wind, etc. some tees may move up or back--not just a set up that puts every hole as far back as possible

[Adam Clayman]

If they truely are the better player, won't that shine through from shorter yardages?

If they are only longer hitters of the ball, is that really a  better player?

I applaud your club president, tournament committee and chairman, for seeing through the brainwashing aspects that the longer ball has created.

Now take two pills, and bomb and gouge your way to a 79.

[C. Squier]

If they truely are the better player, won't that shine through from shorter yardages?

If they are only longer hitters of the ball, is that really a  better player?

I applaud your club president, tournament committee and chairman, for seeing through the brainwashing aspects that the longer ball has created.

Now take two pills, and bomb and gouge your way to a 79.

A scratch player who is a relatively short hitter will still beat a 5 hdcp bomber from 7000.  

The issue IMO is that the club championship is being played from a set of tees that the top flight of players likely rarely play.  Why wouldn't you on this ONE day of the year want to set up your course in a somewhat difficult way?  7000 yards just isn't a big deal for scratch players.....you know, the guys who SHOULD win the club championship.  6700 for those guys is a driver/wedge fest.  That's a lot of fun  

Any other club tournament, play from a "weird" set of tees, but not when you're trying to identify the best player at the club.  Bubba Watson doesn't win every Tour event, I don't know why that would be the case at your local club.

CPS

[Patrick_Mucci]

What is the proper way to set up a course for a Club Championship?  Do you set it up at the tips, the member tees or shorter than that?

What time of year is the CC played ?
What area of the country ?
What's the weather like at the time of the CC ?
What's par ?

Ryan, what's your preference ?[/color]

At my Club, our Golf Committee is a bunch of 50-60 year olds that cannot compete with the length of the younger generation.  As a result, they set up the 7600 hundred yard course course around 6700 hundred yard to give them a chance.  

I call it bull shit...I'm interested to hear what others think.


At what yardage would you set the course at ?

What's the yardage at Southern Hills this week ?[/color]

[Bill Gayne]

I think the make up of the membership should be considered. At a "Golf" club such as Oakmont or Jackie Burke's Champions than the club championship should be a maximum test. While at most of your run of the mill "country" clubs, I don't see anything wrong with playing a shorter course and bringing as many players as possible.

The top flight at any run of the mill CC will still be lower single digits.  Why not stick the top flight where they would usually play and ratchet down the tees as you get into the higher flights?  The top flight playing at 6700 yards at Medinah doesn't make a whole lot of sense.  I'm not saying 7600 is the answer, but probably a lot closer to 7000-7100.  

Speaking of Champions, here's a really good article about their Club Championship.  My apologies if its a repost.

http://www.travelandleisure.com/tlgolf/articles/golf-its-all-about-the-game/

Clint

I agree with setting up the course at the distance that it is normally played. I generally don't agree with making the course into something that it's not on a daily basis. Toughening up the course for a club champion by making it longer, fairways tighter, and greens faster only serves to eliminate most of the field. Much like when courses on tour "Tiger proof" it eliminates many in the field.

The low handicap players will most likely win due to having a higher skill level but what's the harm in allowing others to believe that they're in the mix?

[Joe Hancock]

So, how do y'all feel about extra levels of grooming, or faster greens, etc. for your club championships? How consistent are we in our expectations?

Joe

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()