Bull's Bay

[Matt_Ward]

Just had to add a post on one of the courses I'm playing while in Charleston SC although much has been said by a few people.

Hats off to Mike Strantz and Forest Fezler for their efforts at Bull's Bay. The course tops out at just over 7,100 yards and although they literally built a mountain for the location of where the clubhouse is the quality of the holes and the manner by which the course is routed through the Low Country is quite impressive.

The greens were not tip top shape as they experienced some problems of winter kill but the overall layout is well done. Miek Strantz sometimes gets beaten over the head for his efforts at Tobacco Road and even Royal New Kent (which I think is a fine course) but his work at Bull's Bay is a solid design and only serves to give real golfers one more reason to visit Charleston.

I'd be interested in what others have to say about the course. Thanks!

[Ben Cowan-Dewar]

Miek Strantz sometimes gets beaten over the head for his efforts at Tobacco Road

Matt,
Do you agree with these critics?

Do you like Tobacco Road?

Is Bull's Bay more subdued?

Is subdued necessarily better from Strantz?

I thought Tobacco Road was brilliant. While I hope that Strantz would not continue to build everything in that vein, but I am very happy he chose to build TR.

[A.G._Crockett]

Matt Ward

I hope to hear from you on Ben Dewar's questions.  I value your experience, and would love to know not only what you think of T.R., but a comparison of T.R. to Bulls Bay.  I'm hoping to play Caledonia and True Blue on the same day in July, and would love to hear your thoughts on those as well if you've seen them.

[Adam_Messix]

Matt--

I played Bulls Bay in January along with several other Charleston venues and found the course to be very enjoyable and interesting.  The greens were very good and quite fast when I visited, but the worst of the winter had yet to arrive.

Strantz succeeded at Bulls Bay as he usually does from an artistic standpoint...the place is really awesome to look at.  I also liked the way he routed most the holes through the lowland topography.  The question I have for you is whether or not you liked two of the par 5s, the 2nd that almost forms a U-shape around a sandy area and a large lake on the left and the 13th where you have to hit it about 480 yards in two shots to get a clear look at the green for the third shot.  I think 13 might be a bit over the top, but I'm interested to hear what you think.  Incidentally, I particularly liked the uphill 14th.

[John_Conley]

Did you wear shorts?

[Mongolian_Reversal]

Bull's Bay is circus golf.  The first 5 or so holes are good low-country golf.  Then the wide open, crisscross cart path myriad begins.  9 and 18 are very similar and both are horrible golf holes (dogleg lefts, approach up a man made hill to a blind green.)  Add two horseshoe-shaped par 5's and a number 17, a par three whose sole purpose appears to be to get you from 16 green to 18 tee, well, the course is very avegrage in my opinion.

[Tim_Weiman]

Mongolian Reversal:

I don't recall any previous negative reports about Bulls Bay. Do you have any thoughts about Mike Strantz's other work?

Also, I was confused by your comment about the par 3 #17? Can you elaborate on what you meant?

[cary lichtenstein]

What does Mongolian Reversal stand for if you don't mind my asking?

[James Edwards]

Im a great admirer of Mike Strantz work.  I enjoyed the artistic merits of Tobacco Road which I got to play with my friend last August and on the same trip I managed to go to Bulls Bay when the clubhouse was still next to the main road in a porta cabbin.  The short 5th being one of the best examples of a short Par 4 i've personally seen anywhere.

Adam - there is a similar par 5 at Tobacco Road, (on the back nine before the beautiful par 3 down the hill - 13 or 14??) which also has this problem of fitting into the routing?  This particular par 5 dog legs two ways but the tee shot requires a fairway wood, then a completely blind second with a mid iron followed by a blind third to an elevated green with a short iron?

The hole just about gets away with it though in my opinion because of the consistency of personal touch from previous holes which has spilled over into this hole.  The strategy is demanding though.

Mike Strantz work is interestingl and fresh and an enjoyable experience to play.

[Robert Kimball]

Don't know where my man Turboe has been in a while, but I am sure he will add on when he sees this subject.

[Todd_Joseph]

I know this is moving away from a discussion of Bulls Bay, but I had the opportunity to play another Strantz course, Tot Hill Farm last week on a trip to Pinehurst.  
I'd be interested to hear the groups thoughts on this course.  

It didn't appear to be an overly strategic course off the tee, but the greens and surrounds offered interesting shot options.  I thought there were a half dozen outstanding holes, another group that had interesting features and were enjoyable to play and finally, a group of holes, which included number's 9 and 18, that I really disliked.   Overall, I came away feeling like it was a course I'd want to play occasionally, but I'm not sure I'd include it on an annual trip to the Pinehurst area.  
In comparision, we also played Tobacco Road, which everyone in the group agreed, would be included on an annual trip.

[James Edwards]

Todd,

What tees did you play off at TR? more specifically at the 6th (the par 3 with multiple teeing options)

[Matt_Ward]

To be totally candid I've never played Tobacco Road so I can only say I've seen posts that ran the spectrum. I hope to see it hopefully later this year when I return to the Carolinas.

Bull's Bay does not abandon LowCounty golf -- it embraces it. I liked the fact that the greens were not the clowns / loop-to-loop efforts one sometimes sees on so many "modern" courses. The uphill version holes at the 9th and 18th may strike many people as ill-considered but I enjoyed them because although man's hand created the "mountain" where the clubhouse is the rest of the course is really a well crafted use of the land.

A.G.

I have not played True Blue but I enjoyed Caledonia -- yet, I would still give the edge to Bull's Bay because the "fun" factor is a bit better IMHO.

I liked the par-5 2nd hole because it does ask the golfer to decide on how much to gamble. I also liked the par-5 13th because you have to know precisely what to hit and where to go. I was far enough off the tee to give it a go at the green and my second shot landed in the front greenside bunker.

A few other questions to answer --

Bull's Bay works for me and the "fun" quotient is quite high. You just want to play the next hole and the next and so on and so forth. Is it unnatural to have such a steep 75 foot mountain in the LowCounty? I'm sure some purists will say it's completely out of place. I see it differently and thought the routing and variety of holes was well done. Strantz, in my mind, clearly makes you play well to earn the low number and Bull's Bay doesn't disappoint. I can't say if Bull's Bay is subdued but I enjoyed the round and credit Strantz and Fezler for the manner by which they have added to their overall portfolio.

[Bob_Huntley]

This thread allows me to make a comment on the Strantz and Fezler work at the MPCC Shore Course. The attention to detail and work ethic is simply outstanding. The principals are out there practically from dawn to dusk five and half days a week. Pebble Beach's codes allow no heavy equipment to be used after noon on Saturdays. This is no design and a visit every other week, this is a full time job.

Work started in February and four holes nearest the ocean and toward China Rock are in, bunkered and seeded... they look spectacular. I shall post some pictures when I learn how to get them on this site.