[Kalen Braley]

The discussion of the open at Carnoustie concerning the 17th and 18th hole got me to thinking.  After seeing several players have thier tee ball end up in the 17th fairway, I wondered how much of a feasible play this would be for us mere mortals who aren't long bombers to keep the ball safe.  (Yes I'm speaking for myself on this one )  The questions is what is proper protocol when it comes to intentionally playing to "alternate" fairways?

I was reminded of my previous home course in WA state that has a sort of similar situation.  Its the 12th and 13th holes at Meadowwood Golf Course in Liberty Lake designed by Robert Muir Graves.

Here is an aerial of the holes with some added lines and circles which I will explain:



The 12th is a short 510 yard par 5 that runs from the left to the right of the picture with the par 4 13th below.  When I first started playing the course several years ago, the 13th hole was "protected" from the 12th with internal OB, likely for safety reasons.  A couple of years later this OB was removed which enabled the 13th fairway to be used as an alternate route to going for the 12th green in two.

As one who hits a fade/slice on 80% of my tee shots, playing the hole this way was a fairly easy to do option. Additionally, when attempting a shot shown in red, even if I mishit it a bit, it would still usually end up in the blue area. Choosing this route takes the fairway bunker out of play as a long carry is required to get home in 2. (Shown in yellow). Anything short of a great drive would end up in the bunkers or rough, and those bunkers are fairly deep making just a layup difficult at that point.

So the 1st question is, I always felt sort of guilty by intentionally taking this route as I'm guessing this was not the architects original intent.  What is the protocol as it concerns holes like this on your course or those you may play?  Of course, all of this is working on the assumption that you check the 13th fairway to make sure its clear first.  

And secondly, while they could put the OB stakes back in and "fix" this, I am not a big fan of internal OB.  What would you do architectually to fix this?  (And no I'm not talking about anything radical like blowing up the holes and starting over)   .

Perhaps add a fairway bunker just inside of the cart path on the 13th hole to discourage those on the 12th from going that way??  Or wait for the short,already existing, trees to grow taller?

Any thoughts??

[Tom Zeni]

One possibility.... After Arnold Palmer complained that Andy Bean was intentionally hitting to the wrong fairway to gain easier access to the intended hole at Oakmont, that evening, a giant pine tree was planted precluding Andy from doing that again.

[Kalen Braley]

One possibility.... After Arnold Palmer complained that Andy Bean was intentionally hitting to the wrong fairway to gain easier access to the intended hole at Oakmont, that evening, a giant pine tree was planted precluding Andy from doing that again.

Well one tree, likely wouldn't be much of a deterrent, but many might.


Perhaps the 13th fairway could be modified with some humps and hollows such that a lie on that side of the fairway would be a crap shoot in terms of uphill, downhill or sidehill.

[Kyle Harris]

Eliminate the greenside bunkers and bring the pond up closer to the green, especially on the right edge.

Leave the left side open.

Also, for kicks... take out the two fairway bunkers, place a smaller one in the center of the fairway at the same distance and a little to the left. Get the internal angles of the hole working and just make the right side more and more difficult the further one gets from the new fairway bunker.

[Eric_Terhorst]

I always felt sort of guilty by intentionally taking this route as I'm guessing this was not the architects original intent....

And secondly, while they could put the OB stakes back in and "fix" this, I am not a big fan of internal OB.  

Kalen,

I'm not sure you should feel guilty about anything.  The architect designed it in a way that foments your idea.  Maybe that was his intention?  Aren't there are plenty of holes in Scotland that offer such an opportunity--to play Hole A from fairway B?  You don't say how long that 2nd shot would be, but guessing 200yds or so, over a lake and bunker to the green.  Not a sure-fire 4 or even a 5.  Including the little trees and the cart path annoyance, you have a lot of variables to deal with if you intentionally hit it right.  

The internal OB is a horrible idea, and no other changes are necessary imo.  Except perhaps to your therapy, to get over the guilt.  

[Tim Bert]

Knock down the trees, mow a common fairway, and call both of them par 4s...

[Phil McDade]

Kalen:

I, too, usually dislike internal OB, particularly in circumstances like this, where it's put there mainly due to what appears to be a design flaw of some kind (as opposed to Hoylake, which I sort of like, in part because of how it's defined by the cops).

I'm not sure I like the idea of a fairway bunker inside the cart path -- the lower hole looks difficult enough with a fairway bunker adding more "thread the needle" strategy to that hole (curious -- what's the approx. carry over that fairway bunker left on the lower hole?).

I guess I don't have a good solution that doesn't involve radical re-design. I guess I'd put a bank of trees right of the tee on 12, to create sort of a half-chute to steer play toward the 12th fairway. It looks like some are there already; I'd put more closer in and closer to the tee. Heck, the 18th at Augusta National has a pretty big chute (not for this purpose, but still.....)

[Matt_Cohn]

It seems that the mistake was putting the fairway of the shorter hole on the right side of the corridor - maybe in order to create a few yards of extra length.

A shorter, straighter hole would eliminate the problem entirely.

[Chris Cupit]

In terms of protocol as long as a player makes sure he is not endangering anyone playing another hole, I say any route is fair game

Didn't Walter Hagan play down the driving range side of the fairway bunkers on #8 at Muirfield during The Open?

I agree internal OB sucks and unless there is a huge safety issue I'd try and avoid that.  I did play at Hoylake in the Am and the cops worked well in that setting but I don't know how well that idea would "travel".

Lastly, it does look like a tree planting program to the right of the tee box might really hamper the alternate fairway approach fairly soon.

[Mark Pearce]

Didn't Walter Hagan play down the driving range side of the fairway bunkers on #8 at Muirfield during The Open?

Indeed.  A thicket of trees was grown to avoid a repeat of that strategy.

[Kalen Braley]

Kyle,

I really like the idea of making the bunkers more centerline.  Players can thread the ball in there and it wouldn't be an all or nothing kind of deal as it it now.

Eric,

The carry from the red spot would only be 180 yards or so with about 210-220 to the middle of the green.  Its very doable even for someone like me..

Phil,

For the new bunker on 13, I was thinking it would be just above where the blue oval is.  At that location, most can't reach it from 13 tee... it would really serve as a deternt for hitters on 12 taking that line.  

As for the carry on that bunker on 13, from the white tees its about 220-230 which is perfect for most who would play the white tees.  When the hole is playing downwind, I'll give it a go, but normally I would go out to the right.

And yes bank of tall trees could work there as well, but I thought GCA was all about removing trees not adding them...

Matt,

You are right they could have made the hole straighter but unfortunately what you can't see are the homes that sit on the inside corner of that dogleg on 13.  So I think it was designed that way to get people hitting away from the homes.

Chris,

There are a lot of tall trees by the tee box on 12.  But they only run out about 100 yards so its easy just to hit a fade right around them as shown by the red line.  In addition the prevailing wind on that hole is from left to right, making it that much easier...

Thanks all for the comments...

[Tom_Doak]

Kalen:

If you are playing late in the evening and there's nobody playing the other hole, don't be bashful.  But if there is someone on the other hole, don't take the risk.  And if you hit somebody, I hope neither of you sues the golf course architect.

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen:

If you are playing late in the evening and there's nobody playing the other hole, don't be bashful.  But if there is someone on the other hole, don't take the risk.  And if you hit somebody, I hope neither of you sues the golf course architect.

Tom,

We always looked over there before intentionally playing to that spot...but I can say I went over there a few times when it was unintended.  

As someone who knows understands his craft very well, what would your vote be for changing this?  A stand of tall trees, relocating the two large bunkers, or perhaps putting a "catch bunker on the 13th fairway to make people think twice before taking that route??

And as a card-carrying GCA member, I would never sue an architect for my poor judgement or lack of execution on the golf course.  

[Tom_Doak]

I don't know what is going on below the par-4 in your photo, but if there are no boundaries or safety issues, I would probably flip-flop the fairway so that the bunker was on the right side, between the two holes, and that fairway hugged the player's left of the corridor.

Having the cart path go down the right side of that hole and right into the slicing player on the par 5 is the most dangerous part of the deal.

[Kalen Braley]

I don't know what is going on below the par-4 in your photo, but if there are no boundaries or safety issues, I would probably flip-flop the fairway so that the bunker was on the right side, between the two holes, and that fairway hugged the player's left of the corridor.

Having the cart path go down the right side of that hole and right into the slicing player on the par 5 is the most dangerous part of the deal.

Unfortunately there is housing just out of site that is below the par 4 in the picture.  It is perhaps the most dangerous section of the golf course, so often times I'll just try to carry over the bunker and keep left.  

[Jim Colton]

I often take the shortcut on the closing hole of the course I usually play at, Prairie Landing in West Chicago, IL.  The hole is 70 yards shorter if you take the straight line directly to the hole (500 yards vs 570 yards on the card).  Plus the left side of the 18th fairway that offers you the traditional shortcut rolls slightly downhill to the pond and the fairway ends at about 300 yards.  You could hit a great drive and end up wet.

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