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David Stamm

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Can the Open go back to the Emerald Isle?
« on: July 24, 2007, 11:16:01 AM »
It appears that Harrington has been putting a buzz in the R&A's ear about bringing the Open back to Portrush, from what Shackelford has reported on his website. It sounds like the logistics will make it very tough there. Since he is now the Open champ, perhaps this can give him a little more clout. The K club was mentioned (oh god!!!), but I don't think it was serious.

The question is, where can the R&A bring the Open over there? Please keep in mind all the logistics involved as well as the course. This would be restricted only to links courses. Any thoughts?
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Matt_Ward

Re:Can the Open go back to the Emerald Isle?
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2007, 11:35:21 AM »
David:

In a word -- NO !

For the R&A to abandon it's historial connections to the mother island would be a radical shift in thinking. I don't see it happening.
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George Pazin

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Re:Can the Open go back to the Emerald Isle?
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2007, 11:38:14 AM »
Someone posted a link yesterday that had some comments from the R&A about this. I just scanned it, but they seemed to say it was highly unlikely, primarily due to logistical concerns.
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Andrew Mitchell

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Re:Can the Open go back to the Emerald Isle?
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2007, 11:44:28 AM »
As Matt said - No.

The only two possible contenders are Portrush and Royal County Down, neither of which have the capacity or the infrastructure to hold an Open.

If Harrington was being serious in suggesting the K Club it shows he knows or cares little about the history and tradition of the Open.
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Ally Mcintosh

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Re:Can the Open go back to the Emerald Isle?
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2007, 11:50:46 AM »
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Tim Pitner

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Re:Can the Open go back to the Emerald Isle?
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2007, 11:52:20 AM »
Portmarnock seems like an Open-style course and has hosted recent tournaments.  Obviously, that would mean bringing the Open to the Republic, which is very unlikely, but it's probably the most suitable course.  
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Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Can the Open go back to the Emerald Isle?
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2007, 11:53:11 AM »
so basically, the R&A are saying that the competition cannot be held in the republic of ireland and that the two courses in the north, portrush and RCD, don't have the infrastructure...

...the k-club was not suggested by harrington... it was purely a poor link by the journalist...
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Andrew Mitchell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Can the Open go back to the Emerald Isle?
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2007, 12:07:45 PM »
Quote from: Ally Mcintosh on July 24, 2007, 11:53:11 AM
so basically, the R&A are saying that the competition cannot be held in the republic of ireland and that the two courses in the north, portrush and RCD, don't have the infrastructure...

...the k-club was not suggested by harrington... it was purely a poor link by the journalist...

Ally
Thanks for clearing up the K Club issue.  Having been delighted for Harrington on Sunday night I was dissappointed to see that remark attributed to him.
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Adrian_Stiff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Can the Open go back to the Emerald Isle?
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2007, 12:47:13 PM »
I too think only Royal Portrush could be considered to stage an 'irish' Open, logistically I think its still a no.
I think the open could go to Deal as early as 2011. They are deciding on the next Amateur championship venue shortly and the 2010 could go there.
Royal Porthcawl has much improved infrastructure and could still figure in a future mix, I am not sure if the course is long enough although maybe it does not need to be a factor.
Carnoustie has a lot of areas where you can't get between the holes and tees/greens close, but it did not seem to matter too much.
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Paul_Turner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Can the Open go back to the Emerald Isle?
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2007, 12:52:13 PM »
Quote from: Matt_Ward on July 24, 2007, 11:35:21 AM
David:

In a word -- NO !

For the R&A to abandon it's historial connections to the mother island would be a radical shift in thinking. I don't see it happening.

Matt

But they already did, in 1951.
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Phil Benedict

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Re:Can the Open go back to the Emerald Isle?
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2007, 01:24:21 PM »
Is the R&A looking for new venues?
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Dan Moore

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Re:Can the Open go back to the Emerald Isle?
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2007, 01:35:06 PM »
There is loads of room around the course at Portrush to accommodate the tents and corporate villages and so forth.  The Senior Open didn't seem to pose a problem for the course but I wonder if its long enough.  (As a course Deal seems a more likely candidate in the short run.)  And there is the precedent of the The Open being there once before.  I am unsure about local infrastructure, but within 25-30 miles it seemed like there are enough small towns (Ballycastle, Portstewart, Bushmills, Castlerock etc.) to handle visitors.  The roads and getting there by air may be another thing.    


 
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Tony_Muldoon

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Re:Can the Open go back to the Emerald Isle?
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2007, 06:00:42 PM »
there is a links course with enough space for a massive tented village, about an hour from Belfast and with massive dunes, like RSG, for spectators.  I can only imagine that the lack of any senior amatuer competition having been held there since it was revised, must mean it's not long or tough enough.  But for anyone who has played it recently could the course offer the required challenge?


http://www.portstewartgc.co.uk/Pages/Courses.html
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Matt_Ward

Re:Can the Open go back to the Emerald Isle?
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2007, 06:20:32 PM »
Paul:

Northern Ireland was / is considered by many within the UK as being part of their dominion. (Just don't say that to true Irish folks !!!).

It was a one time thing and given the need for major overhaul in terms of logistics it's extremely doubtful it will ever happen.
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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:Can the Open go back to the Emerald Isle?
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2007, 06:27:07 PM »
From various conversations over the years, I believe there is some interest in having the Open back at Portrush someday, but fear of political instability there has made it impossible to consider.  [Perhaps "infrastructure" is a euphemism for that.]  

If they go another ten years without any more violence in Northern Ireland, I believe they'll put it on the schedule again.
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Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Can the Open go back to the Emerald Isle?
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2007, 09:05:02 PM »
I think Tom's right.    The Troubles, thankfully, are much quieter there nowadays.   Of course, a lot of that could do with the booming economy.  Lots of USA offshoring going on to Ireland these days.

I'd love to see it happen.
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Sean Leary

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Re:Can the Open go back to the Emerald Isle?
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2007, 09:15:14 PM »
Having just played it twice, Portrush certainly feels like an Open course to me.  The rough is penal, it is 7400 yards, the USGA could put all the corporate tents on the Valley Course and, ummmm, never mind..... ;)

All kidding aside, the golf course is tournament ready every day.  An absolute monster if the wind blows at all.
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Jim Nugent

Re:Can the Open go back to the Emerald Isle?
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2007, 12:34:41 AM »
Quote from: Phil Benedict on July 24, 2007, 01:24:21 PM
Is the R&A looking for new venues?

The R&A, i.e. Hill, said, "The Championship Committee would love to find new venues"

He also said RCD and RP don't work because they can't hold enough people.  Solution: raise ticket prices.  
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Wayne_Kozun

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Re:Can the Open go back to the Emerald Isle?
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2007, 01:15:19 AM »
Is there any specific reason why the Open Championship has to be held in the UK, and can't be held in the Republic, or elsewhere?  I thought the only constraint is that it is to be held on a links course - but I am not sure where or even if that is codified anywhere.
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Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Can the Open go back to the Emerald Isle?
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2007, 04:18:44 AM »
tom, they cannot seriously be using political instability as a card?... the north appears more stable than westminster or washington at the moment...

paul, northern ireland is absolutely part of the uk... the majority of irish folks would tell you exactly the same... incidentally the border thankfully doesn't stop there being some realistic all-ireland crossover when it comes to sport...

dan, deal has held the open twice before and portrush has held it once before so there is a precedent...

wayne, as much as the traditionalists like to call it 'the open', it was also being referred to as 'the british open' as far back as the 1870's... the 'R&A' have also just officially referred to it as "the open championship as held in great britain" somewhat wrongly as it turns out, great britain not including northern ireland... i.e. that's what stops it being held in the republic or in holland or in australia for that matter...
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Mark Pearce

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Re:Can the Open go back to the Emerald Isle?
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2007, 04:41:58 AM »
Quote from: Matt_Ward on July 24, 2007, 06:20:32 PM
Paul:

Northern Ireland was / is considered by many within the UK as being part of their dominion. (Just don't say that to true Irish folks !!!).

It was a one time thing and given the need for major overhaul in terms of logistics it's extremely doubtful it will ever happen.

Northern Ireland is in the UK.  That's what the troubles were all about.  When Protestants talk about the Union they are talking about the Union between Great Britain (England, Wales, Scotland) and Northern Ireland as created in the Act of Union.  The difference between Great Britain and the United Kingdom is the addition of Northern Ireland.
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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:Can the Open go back to the Emerald Isle?
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2007, 05:07:54 AM »
Ally:

I don't think they are using the political situation there as a "card".  They are just being realists.  They thought seriously about having the 2001 Open at Portrush at the 50th anniversary of the previous Open, but the political situation wasn't stable enough.  

They are keenly aware that the Open attracts international attention and would be an attractive target for demonstrators or terrorists.  (You should see the SWAT teams they have stationed near the US Open "just in case".)  As long as there is any chance of having trouble in Northern Ireland, you bet it's a factor, although they are never going to say so publicly.
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Ally Mcintosh

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Re:Can the Open go back to the Emerald Isle?
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2007, 05:27:02 AM »
d'you know what tom?... i'm sure you're right... it wouldn't surprise me if that was the reason the R&A ruled out 2001...

...but by my estimation the terrorists and demonstrators would be far more likely to be coming from abroad to a country they associate with 'troubles' than they would be from within ireland... with the exception of a very very few thugs (who would be thugs wherever they were), most people in northern ireland are fed up of violence and would welcome a chance to show northern ireland off to the world sporting audience...

the US is a more dangerous place than northern ireland...
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Chris Flynn

Re:Can the Open go back to the Emerald Isle?
« Reply #23 on: July 25, 2007, 06:46:00 AM »
The USGA broke free of tradition and made the move to bring it to Bethpage Black and they became genius' as a result of its success.  Now Torrey and a return to Merion and many other previously "risky" decisions have become less of an issue.

The R&A sticks to its guns much longer than the USGA but demand and financial upside should force them to seriously consider adding an occasional unique course to the rota - and Portrush or RCD seem like the obvious choices.  Take a page from the USGA book in leveraging good process (transportation) to offset poor infrastructure and there are less arguments against.

The Walker Cup at RCD could have the same positive effect on the R&A as the US am at Merion did the USGA.
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Tom_Doak

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Re:Can the Open go back to the Emerald Isle?
« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2007, 06:54:39 AM »
Ally:

I'm not disagreeing with you, there are a lot of cities in America that are more dangerous than Belfast; the coverage is just different because of the circumstances.  But nothing would hurt the R & A more than having the Open disrupted by violence, so they are not going to take any undue chances.  (Plus, I doubt there are many members from Northern Ireland on the championship committee.)

It'll happen one of these years, I hope.
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