[TEPaul]

Did you know that long ago this was the way of golf?

What if a golf course did that again?

What I think the result and reality would be is that every player would be at the mercy of his particular physical assets or handicaps.

Let's say two players are scratch players but one hit the ball off the tee 50 yards farther than the other? This is something that scratch players have to deal with anyway but what about ladies or handicap players who even if of the same handicap, whatever it may be, are very different in both distance and accuracy?

It seems to me this may be the most realistic way to handicap anyone and everyone in reality---eg just put them off the same tees and let them work out their hole and round scores to their physical capabilities of accuracy and distance.

This way the handicap system would not have to come up with some hypothetical "bogey" golfer who nominally hits tee shots 200 yards.

This would also force architects to accomodate everyone in design and just may create far more accommodating and more interesting strategies in holes and courses for everyone.

Things like "personal par" on any hole would become more realistic with any player. Things like "par" GIR would go out the window for most players?

So what? This could be the way of "real" golf for every player. The course would not have to accommodate any player's handicap----every player would pretty much have to do that himself or herself.

[JESII]

Good luck getting that horse back in the barn...

[Rich Goodale]

Great idea Tom!

Even though you stole the concept from CONGU......

The main problem is that too many modern golf courses have too much carry from the back tees to make this feasible.

Rich

S--If you really want to be radical, extend the concept to the ladies too

[TEPaul]

Where have you been Farnsworth?

[TEPaul]

"PS--If you really want to be radical, extend the concept to the ladies too."

Farnsworth:

I did. Read my post again.

I'm a true equal opportunity advocate. I believe women should be allowed to try to do anything anyone else can on an equal footing.  

Forget about ladies. I'm extending an equal opportunity footing in this suggestion to even small children and dogs.  
 
 

[Dan Herrmann]

Richard,
I'll often move up to the "white" tees and Laura will move back to the "white" tees for a match.  For one thing, it saves time, but it gives a reallly different perspective.  Pretty cool, actually.

[TEPaul]

"Good luck getting that horse back in the barn..."

Psshaw, Sully:

Give me some fairway grass short off the tee at #18 Carnoustie and I bet in ten tries I could best the final round score on #18 of the newly crowned Open Champ.  

[Dan Herrmann]

Tom, I'm betting on you.  Anybody that can shoot the type of scores you have at your home course with its course rating and slope says, "Winner!".

It's not like you're a 15

[TEPaul]

By the way, Sullivan, you long hitting, young buck smartass, I'll have you know I learned this fascinating philosophy from Huntingdon Valley's own original purist Linc Roden.

When I informed him that the C nine's 7th hole was basically impossible for even some low handicap short hitters because of the crossing creeks, he informed me that the hole was, in fact, brilliant strategically for such as those.

I said, "Oh yeah, you purist nut-case, how is that?"

The Lincoln informed me that it should be played with a 4 iron off the tee and then a 9 iron followed by an 8 iron to the green and a decent one putt.

I told the antediluvian dreamer that did not constitute a GIR and he informed me that GIRs do not win golf holes, only the lowest score does.

The thing about this interesting application of golf is tortoises understand the Achilles' heels of hares better than hares understand the Archilles' heels of tortoises. Tortoises know if you give hares enough twine they will inevitably hogtie themselves more often than not.

[Tom_Doak]

Tom:

We try to think about our holes as if all the players might use any of the tees.

If it were a universal practice, some of the benefits would be:

a)  The majority would insist on a reasonable length and there wouldn't be any more 7500 yard courses;

b)  Green to tee walks would be a breeze; and

c)  Courses would be more interesting visually because there would be more "foreground" bunkers to provide interest for the shorter hitters.

[Mark_Fine]

Tom Doak said:

"We try to think about our holes as if all the players might use any of the tees."

So how does that impact what you actually design?  Are you saying that even kids, women, seniors and beginners in general could play any of your golf courses from any set of your tees?  Of the Doak courses I've played, I don't think so!

[JESII]

The thing about this interesting application of golf is tortoises understand the Achilles' heels of hares better than hares understand the Archilles' heels of tortoises. Tortoises know if you give hares enough twine they will inevitably hogtie themselves more often than not.

But...forcing the tortoises hand takes away a bit of his advantage...don't you think?

If you cannot carry it 235 you cannot hit it more than 200...then, since you couldn't carry it 235 off a tee it is unlikely you will want to try to carry it 200 over water off the deck...so you hit it 120 and then you go to a severe green from the wrong angle from about 120...

Remove the first creek and the long hitters have a diagonal creek up the left side they need to avoid on drives over 270 and players hitting a low running tee ball will have the opportunity to play their second to the short left fairway (the original direction the hole came from) and pitch up the length of the green in hopes of a 4 but with th erisk of a 6...

[Jim_Kennedy]

TE,

Linc Roden has a good point, one which might be acceptable for a few holes, but who is going to enjoy playing a course where they have little or no chance of being on or around the green in 'regulation'.
People like to feel they are being 'served', one tee box doesn't do that for modern golfers.  

[Mike_Cirba]

As someone just to the left of Linc's curmudgeonly approach, I'm all in favor of a single set of tees used by everyone.

Ok...two sets, but absolutely no more than that.  

See...I told you I'm reasonable.  

[Jerry Kluger]

I have concluded that courses are designed from the back forward and the back tees usually give a far better perspective of the hole - your suggestion would perhaps cause architects to take the tees forward of the tips more into account when designing a hole.  

[jeffwarne]

One set of tees for most players
Then one's handicap will accurately the difference.

Another very short set for beginner ladies and young kids.

I get a kick out of members bragging about how long their course is and dissing another because it's short.
but they play tees at their course far shorter than the back tees at the course they're criticising.

Regulation?
If you're carring it 150 yards you shouldn't be reaching most par 4's in regulation.
That's what your handicap's for

[Adam Clayman]

Back in the good ol days at Pacific Grove, our club's regular game did exactly what Tom Paul has proposed. Everyone played the same set, even the women. It became such a natural thing, that when the Cadet Corp from St. Andrews came over to play, and, their one lassie was alowed to play forward, I was shocked.

Funny how there's an assumption on this thread that the one teeing ground would be from the furthest back.

I'll relate one story. We were in Reno, playing our regular game and it just so happens the one woman is on my team that day. She is struggling mightly as the carries are just too much for her. Just as she's about to give up and start crying, she gets the closey on the one shot 12th and sinks the putt for a duece. Well, talk about a one eighty. The women was elated and her satisfaction was well deserved, having beat some very good low single digit handicap players.

[Willie_Dow]

Sorry, Tom:
Great thought, but no good until we all play with gutta percha balls.

[Jason Topp]

It would require expanded fairway acerage, even on courses with no forced carries.  Last weekend, my father often would not reach the fairway with good tee shots, even though we were playing from 6200 yard tees.

[Mark_Fine]

When first teaching my kids to play "on the big course", they would start most of the holes from about where I hit my drives and/or somewhere closer to the hole in the middle of the fairway.  

I was out at The Preserve in CA in June and they had a set of tees located so that every hole played as "a par three".  The tees were arbitrarily located in the fairways in locations that the pro thought would be interesting.  The course from there played as an 18 hole par three course.  The tee markers could be moved as needed to mix up the angles of play and yardages.

Maybe some are too hung up on "formal" tee boxes.  A tee is just a location from which you start to play a hole.
Mark  

[Bob_Huntley]

TE,

'but who is going to enjoy playing a course where they have little or no chance of being on or around the green in 'regulation'.

Jim,

Having played in a few King's Putter events, I would say a helluva lot.


Bob

[Chris_Clouser]

I played a course recently that had seven sets of tees.  

Not only does it cause confusion on what tee to play on each hole but it also effectively takes hazards out of play on several holes.  I think in this case the architect laid out the course, but the club decided to just start putting up tees with no thought about the architectural impact.  

I say you have one normal set of tees for everyday play.  One forward set of tees for beginners, ladies or seniors or whomever.  And if you must for tournaments, one more set for tournament play but they only get used in tournaments and thats it.  

I pretty much usually play the tees that are closest to 6500 yards.  In most cases this puts the tee shot options and hazards in the right location on holes and I have to think my way around the course and have the most fun.  Further back and most of these are out of my range off the tee (250 yards)and the holes actually get easier as I don't have to worry about my tee shots getting penalized unless I'm wild.  I have a little longer shot into the green, but that doesn't bother me as much as trying to hit out of a fairway bunker.  

[Richard Boult]

The Lincoln informed me that it should be played with a 4 iron off the tee and then a 9 iron followed by an 8 iron to the green and a decent one putt... I told the antediluvian dreamer that did not constitute a GIR and he informed me that GIRs do not win golf holes, only the lowest score does.

Much like Zack Johnson's par 5 strategy at Augusta!

[Richard Boult]

I say you have one normal set of tees for everyday play.  One forward set of tees for beginners, ladies or seniors or whomever.  And if you must for tournaments, one more set for tournament play but they only get used in tournaments and thats it.

I think that's the best suggestion so far... I'd also leave the tourney tees in place the week before each tourney for practice rounds, and the week after so everyone else can get a taste of the course from that distance.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Bob,
  I'll play from anywhere, and have a good time doing so, but I don't think I'm in the majority. People get a lot of satisfaction from playing a course at a length that suits their game. The 'other world' of golfers is populated by lots of folks who like to see a respectable number at the end of the day. They want to have a chance at hitting some greens with their approach shots, in regulation, because it makes them feel good to do so.

  A good example of what I mean is found in Adam's post, the one about the woman who finally hits one close on a par 3 and makes the putt. Now, it seems she had little chance of doing that at the other holes on the course and it was a frustrating experience.

Golf is about fun, and unless there is a sea change in the golf culture of America I don't see the end of multiple tee boxes.

p.s. Everyone on this thread who seems to agree with the one-tee concept has some exception, i.e., tournaments, kids,  etc..    

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