[Mike Hendren]

I was at Reynolds Plantation recently and Engh's Creek Club is now open.  It was routinely closed, however the day of the week I was there.  

A windshield inspection confirmed that he did in fact design three greens at the 18th, sited left, middle, and right in an amphitheater setting.

Conditioning looked immaculate.  The few holes I saw were very hilly and featured outrageously fun looking greens, including a large green approached uphill with a tiny drop down bowl in the front - think tea cup instead of punchbowl.  

I have only played Fossil Trace, but am really enamored with his design philosophy and can't wait to return to Reynolds to play this course.

I look forward to a first hand review from the treehouse.

Mike

[Bill_McBride]

Bogey, you would have time to squeeze in an afternoon round at The Creek whilst participating in the Dixie Cup in October.

How does the "Engh look" compare to the "Stranz look?"  I have not been fortunate enough to play an Engh yet.  I do love that wild Stranz look and wonder if there is a similar lunar feeling?

[Mike Hendren]

Bill,

I wish I was smart enough and experienced enough to contrast the work of Engh and Strantz.  

I have every intention of attending Dixie Cup but can't yet commit as we're visiting colleges in the fall and that three day weekend might be valuable.  

Mike

[Kalen Braley]

Mike that is something I wouldn't mind doing someday as well.  From the discussions I've seen on this site, these two guys seem to be a love em or hate em type of deal.  Seeing how I really loved Enghs quirky holes are RM and LC, I'm guessing I would love Stranz's quirky stuff that he did at say Tobacco Road.  Hopefully I'll get back to the Carolinas sooner rather than later to find out...

[Mike Hendren]

My only thought:

Strantz: art
Engh:  whimsy

[Wyatt Halliday]

Mike,

I can honestly say I have never hear a more perfect adjective to describe the work of Engh. Whimsical is not good or bad, it's just whimsical!

'hwim-zi-kul":

1 : full of, actuated by, or exhibiting whims
2 a : resulting from or characterized by whim or caprice; especially : lightly fanciful <whimsical decorations> b : subject to erratic behavior or unpredictable change  

[Jay Flemma]

Like Strantz, Engh has developed a signature style, but one with an original and comforting voice to look at and play.

Also like strantz, he derives his templates from the great dunes courses across the pond.  Strantz said his faves were macrahanish, gullane, RCD...engh would choose the NW of Ireland.

Jim's contours, while artificial are a great flavor in their own right.  Sure its not minimalism, but he's not moving CRAZY amounts of earth either...generally around 3-400,000 CCs.  Some people love the amphitheatre feel and the severe elevation changes.  I've noticed Jim's style change a little over time as he has "softened" them a little to go with a more natural look.

Nevertheless, he muscle bunkers are his inimitable style and I think we should embrace them.  Lets dispell some things about them that are not true.

Misconception 1 - they are too hard. - Come again?  Its a hazard...the bit about "well the slopes are to penal and the suck the ball in"...well the pot bunkers on links do the same thing and no one complains about them.  So don't have such a double standard to impose on a modern american course when it plays like a revered links but doesn't look like a revered links.  As for too hard, where are your complaints about Macdonald and Raynors deep bunkers?!

2 - they're a nightmare to maintain - not true.  They are easier than flash-faced since you dont have to keep pushing and raking sand and the sides use growth regulators on the faces so you only have to mow once a week.

I have not yet heard a single complaint from a course or a superintendent.  I will note that I wish that at Lakota canyon they would shave the collars around the greens...having rough there cancels out a little of the sidewall effect and reduces greenside options.  

3.  They dont look natural.  Again, so what.  They look nice on the course.  If they dont please your eye, fine I cant change that, but he has a unique voice, he freed himself from the cloverleaf and they are amusing...especially the one that looks like a sperm cell that impregnates the 18th green at Fossil trace.

Give Engh props for creativity.  "One of these kids is doing his own thing" and coming in on time and under budget.  He's excellent at preserving and promoting the natural treasures of the site (Fossil Trace) and the members all uniformly love his courses.

If strantz is dali, then engh is sort of cubist...rounded cubist is that's not an oxymoron...

[Tom_Doak]

Jay:

Calling Jim Engh's style "cubist" is a great label.  It's not exactly that style, but the term does give the right impression of shock value, that it's really completely different from other art.

Did Mike Strantz really tell you that his ideas were inspired by overseas courses though?  Did he spend much time there?

[Kalen Braley]

Jay,

I think the bunkers are tougher when the rough is up around the sides of them.  I had a few extreme lies on the slopes around them that made it brutally tough just to hit my next shot much less get on the green.  When the ball did make it all the way into the sand, the lies were generally flat and not tough.

I would contend that maintainence on the slopes of these bunkers would be difficult because I could barely walk up or down them much less try to get a mower on them.

As for RM and LC, I really liked the look of them visually because they were so unique to anything I've seen. They kept my attention during both rounds and were very intimidating on some holes.

As it pertains to 18 at Fossil Trace, if that was the "sperm" bunker then 15 at LC is the "butthole" bunker.  

[Jay Flemma]

Jay:

Calling Jim Engh's style "cubist" is a great label.  It's not exactly that style, but the term does give the right impression of shock value, that it's really completely different from other art.

Did Mike Strantz really tell you that his ideas were inspired by overseas courses though?  Did he spend much time there?

He spent a great deal of time there.  He specifically named Macrihanish and Gullane and RCD.  He loved Muirfield and Prestwick too.  He was pals with the maintainance team at RCD and he and the Maverick teama nd friends would play the RCD guys one year at RCD, one year at Royal New Kent - his tribute to RCD as he put it...with a little raynor and mcdonald to boot in a couple green settings.

Anyway, they'd play the "2-1/2, 2-1/2, 2-1/2 game" - two and a half hours to complete 18 holes (or you're penalized), two and a half hours of drinkiing (and eating), two and half hours for the next 18 holes....

I REALLY want to do that sometime...

Oh..here's the pix I promised:

These are pix of the sperm bunker impregnating the green...I can hear JIm now..."Jay, that's not a spermcell.  I know, because I designed it:)"




and then this one swimming upstream

[Tom_Doak]

Jay:

I had forgotten that Mike S. worked on the Royal New Kent project and went with Larry and Danny Young overseas at that time.  The only real time I spent with him was when he still worked in Fazio's office in Jupiter, back in 1986, and I don't think he'd been overseas at all back then.

People often make the mistake of remembering their first impressions of somebody and not allowing them to grow in their minds in years afterward.  My bad.

[Jay Flemma]

Boy isn't it crazy how the years fly?  In '86 I was a freshman at Trinity.

Anyway, the question still stands..asked by the gentleman concerned...does that not look like a sperm cell impregnating a green?

[cary lichtenstein]

Boy isn't it crazy how the years fly?  In '86 I was a freshman at Trinity.

Anyway, the question still stands..asked by the gentleman concerned...does that not look like a sperm cell impregnating a green?

Jay:

You are halluciating ;Dagain. They look like snakes

[BCrosby]

Cubes, snakes, sperm, pimples, whatever they are supposed to look like, they are awful.

Old Des is spinning in his grave. I'm not sure if it is from pleasure or pain. But he's spinning.

Bob

[Kalen Braley]

Boy isn't it crazy how the years fly?  In '86 I was a freshman at Trinity.

Anyway, the question still stands..asked by the gentleman concerned...does that not look like a sperm cell impregnating a green?

A little bit...what do you think about the "bung-hole" bunker?

[Jay Flemma]

well...can we come up with something a little more "mixed company"?

Those houses were NOT there when I was there last.

[RSLivingston_III]

Could you guys label what courses the pics are from. This work seems much better than what I have seen of him around here.

[Jay Flemma]

Both my pics are 18 at fossil trace.

[RSLivingston_III]

Jay, thanks!
Kalen, is that a par 3 shot from the tee?
LC stands for....

[Kalen Braley]

Jay, thanks!
Kalen, is that a par 3 shot from the tee?
LC stands for....

Ralph,

Yes, its the par 15th at Lakota Canyon...

Jay,

How about the bone-yard bunker.  Going in there would be almost certain death..it was very deep and nasty.

[Chris Cupit]

Nevertheless, he muscle bunkers are his inimitable style and I think we should embrace them.  Lets dispell some things about them that are not true.

Misconception
2 - they're a nightmare to maintain - not true.  They are easier than flash-faced since you dont have to keep pushing and raking sand and the sides use growth regulators on the faces so you only have to mow once a week.

I have not yet heard a single complaint from a course or a superintendent.  I will note that I wish that at Lakota canyon they would shave the collars around the greens...having rough there cancels out a little of the sidewall effect and reduces greenside options.  

Jay,

I know the construction foreman of the job and visited the site during construction.  The foreman is now an owner/operator of a course and has a great history as a superintendent--one of Mike Young's friends BTW.

Anyway, he was asked to give an estimate to Mercer Reynolds for an annual maintenance budget.  I understand Engh felt that he was "thrown under the bus" for this guys estimate because it was right at $2 million dollars--for one 18 hole course.

Money is not an issue for this club, and as long as a super has a budget to support thhe course why would they care, but I promise this type of design does not come cheap!

I found the course very intriguing but my super who came along to look was shocked by what it's going to take to maintain.

[Jay Flemma]

How bout the "black hole" kalen? I can't even see the bottom...god those houses are really jammin me up...so glad I played it pristine.

[Kalen Braley]

How bout the "black hole" kalen? I can't even see the bottom...god those houses are really jammin me up...so glad I played it pristine.

Yeah thats a good one too.

I have to admit, when we first arrived at the course we checked in and then walked around on the deck behind the "clubhouse."  When I looked down the hill I saw what I thought was the 18th hole from prior pictures, but couldn't figure out why all these houses and pad sites were out there.

I guess a lot of thier advertising shots show the 18th in its pristine state, not as it is now.  That being said, I understand the course is apart of the community and they need to try to make it economically viable, and that 18th is a very nice hole to gaze at, especially when the sun is setting.  

[Mike_Cirba]

I really need to see one of Engh's designs and hope to see the Creek Club this summer.

I don't think there's an architect practicing today who draws such a disparate range of opinion, and it's time to find out for myself.

[Jay Flemma]

I really need to see one of Engh's designs and hope to see the Creek Club this summer.

I don't think there's an architect practicing today who draws such a disparate range of opinion, and it's time to find out for myself.

Then Mike, you must go play Pradera.

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