[Kalen Braley]

As promised, here is a review of Redlands Mesa.Just a quick note before diving in... I appreciate all of the feedback on the LC course profile. These reviews are my opinions only, even though of course I'm usually right. I enjoy putting these together and hope that they can be both useful and entertaining.

Now on to the important stuff. Redlands Mesa Golf Community can be found in Grand Junction, CO near the Utah border.  It sits eleganty near a high mesa and is integrated well into the beautiful desert back drop to the south. The facility includes a fully-stocked modern clubhouse with fine dining and sweeping views off the back deck area.  The complex features a crystal clear pool, superb practice facility, and expansive practice green. I've just always wanted to do one of those flowery, faux introductory reviews.....NOT!!!  There really is a pool though...on with the show!!!  

Course Routing - Thumbs up - A thoughtful job was done in routing the course over several ridges and valleys on the desert property. It spans across several rock outcroppings and thru a large wash on the back 9. While there are houses on the front 9, they do have a strict building code to integrate them into the landscape.  OK OK, they still stand out, but at least the back 9 for the most part is devoid of the nasty beasts.  
 
Tee Shots - Thumbs up - Elevated tee shots are the name of the game at this course and Jim Engh has provided some spectacular views of the entire area. They are worked in well with the surronding rock outcroppings and there are no steep hikes to the back tee locations.

Fairways - Thumbs down - The fairways for the most part are fairly flat without much contouring. While there are only a small handful of "drop-ins", there isn't much action to them.  The tee shots are not overly demanding and there is not much of an advantage to being on one side or the other with a couple of notable exceptions.

Bunkering - Nuetral - Enghs unique style of bunkering was prevelant with a mixed use of his "muscular" and pot bunkers. There did seem to be a lack of deep sand in them which as a result called for precise ball striking to avoide hitting recovery shots thin.  They were penal for the most part which as stated previously is a good thing as most American style bunkers are too tame.

Green Complexes - Thumbs up - The green complexes were solid through out the entire course.  Most of them gave the golfer at least a few different approach options and a few allowed running the ball on to the green. In my view numbers 3,5,8,14,and 17 were exceptional with extra emphasis on #17.

Greens - Nuetral - As mentioned in my review of LC, my views of the greens are split.  While I do like thier undulating nature and their ability to demand precise putting, thier repeated template nature detracted a bit from them. #11 seemed to break the mold and was a very cool putting surface.

Conditioning - Nuetral - The fairways and rough were in good condition as a whole. However they were a bit soggy in places due to either over-watering or poor drainage. The greens were cut to a nice quick speed and really brought the contouring of the greens very much into play. I put myself out of position on one green where I was just playing to ensure I didn't 4 putt. (I did manage to make a 8 footer to save the 2 putt )

Playability - Nuetral - This course is reasonably do-able for all skill levels. While there were forced carries, most of them were very minimal.  There is OB and Hazards on every hole but they were easily avoidable for the most part. While there was not a lot of strategic decisions to be made on the course, the par 5s did employ this on the 2nd shots if going for the green.

Enjoyment/Fun Factor/Aesthetics- Thumbs up - The pace of play was as expected for a weekend AM time. I really really enjoyed the use of the massive rocks and other outcroppings throughtout the course that both came into play and served as back drops. The views were very nice and expansive, and I was way past giddy as the 17th hole unfolded before us. I think Andy and Dan were about ready to strap me into a straight jacket, muzzle me, and chain me up to the rock. Many might think it over the top, but its the current front runner for my favorite par 3 of all time.

I've been trying to avoid comparisons to LC, because I really wanted this just to be a Redlands only review. But in my opinion with the exception of a couple of holes, there wasn't as much of the sheer fun or wow factor as there was at LC.  Don't get me wrong it was still a terrific course, and I would play it again in a New York second, but it just wasn't as intense as some of the holes found at LC. And with that, I give it the following.

Doak Scale Rating - 7

P.S. Andy and I decided the front 9 at LC combined with the back 9 at RM would make for a very very nice 1-2 punch 18 hole course.  

Enough talk, onto the pics.  If you will please be patient while I post the Front and Back pics I would appreciate it.

Thanks,

[Kalen Braley]

The Front 9 At Redlands Mesa

Hole 1 - Par 4
Tee shot on a relativly gentle start to the round:


Short and right of the green.  I liked how the green sat in this little outcropping, the pic doesn't capture it very well.




Hole 2 - Par 4
Intimidating tee shot with rocks on the left.


Andy went left and paid the piper...


The approach in




Hole 3 - Par 3
View from tee, about 170 out.


Don't leave it short or you have these nasty boys to contend with.




Hole 4 - Par 4
Tee shot


The approach in:


Looking back from the left side of the hole





Hole 5 - Par 5
I really loved this tee shot visually.  You can hit over the corner to the right to bite some yardage off.


The approach in for the 2nd after a good tee ball.. (Andys not mine )


The crazy Gene Simmons Tongue green.  Its approx 6 feet from the bottom tier up to the top tier.


Looking back at the hole near the 6th tee. I really liked this hole, a bit of quirk never hurt anyone.




Hole 6 - Par 4
Elevated tee shot.


The rest of the hole was rather pedestrian, nothing to write home about.



Hole 7 - Par 4
Andy lining up his tee shot.


The long approach in on this long uphill par 4




Hole 8
Neat little par 3 tucked into a rocky corner.


The green complex up close:




Hole 9
Tee shot up the hill


Approach in to a semi blind green


I did a bad thing with my 2nd shot and had this to try to get up and down from.



Back 9 soon to follow.

[Matt_Ward]

Kalen:

Redlands Mesa would be even more noted if NOT for the creation of LCR and Devil's Thumb -- just south of Grand Junction in Delta.

I like Redlands Mesa but the real deal comes with Engh's effort at LCR. Think of it this way -- what Engh did started at Redlands Mesa has leapfrogged a good bit more with the layout in New Castle.

I also see the back nine being a good bit better than what you get with the same side at Redlands Mesa.

One final note: I do like Redlands Mesa but when I see it listed among the top four courses in all of Colorado (re: Digest) I just shake my head because LCR and Greg Norman's 18 at Red Sky Ranch are clearly beyond it. Golfweek also has Redlands Mesa among the best three public courses in the state and that too is in error -- although LCR is listed one spot above it so at least they have that correct IMHO.

[Kalen Braley]

The back 9

Hole 10 - Par 5
Drop shot tee view


Approach in


A view of the green from the left




Hole 11 - Par 4
Elevated tee


Approach


View of the wildy cool green.  I really liked this one




Hole 12 - Par 3
Tee shot




Hole 13 - Par 5
Tee shot


Approach in, trouble must be avoided here.


A look back




Hole 14 - Par 4
I really like the quirk on this hole.  I'm sure its a love it or hate it kind of hole.  Tee ball to be played between two rocks or be like Andy and go over the rock on the right with tee shot.


My blind approach in from about 85 yards


View from behind green, looking back




Hole 15 - Par 5
Tee shot - "Bite off as much as you can chew"


Approach in




Hole 16 - Par 4
Tee Shot


Approach in.  You can't see it, but the left side must be avoided at all costs.  There are about 5 nasty pots hiding and lurking for unsuspecting golfers.




Hole 17 - Par 3
I really loved this hole as noted before.  I know its probably over the top but it was a WOW hole for me.  An "unzoomed" in view of tee shot


Zoomed in view of Green and surrondings


A view from the left hand side of the green


Looking back to the outcropping we teed off from.  Tee box is about 2/3 the way up the rock.




Hole 18 - Par 4
A bit of a letdown, but a decent finishing hole


Approach in



Enjoy!!!

[Andy Troeger]

Again nicely done with the photos Kalen, even if you have to include the one of me wandering around the rocks  I gave you enough opportunities at Redlands that its an appropriate sighting!

I agree with Matt that the back nine at Redlands is the better of the two sides. #11-14 is a very inspired stretch, and there are other fine holes here as well (#1, 4, 8, 16).

I do not think Redlands photographs as well as Lakota, the site is a little less dramatic (not much!) but IMO the golf is just as good (sorry Matt). The front at Lakota and the back at Redlands would make quite a golf course.

[Scott Weersing]

Why so many elevated tees?

Is it a cart course or can you walk?

If you can find it in the rocks, can you play it?

The greens look fun.

[astavrides]

Why so many elevated tees?

Is it a cart course or can you walk?

If you can find it in the rocks, can you play it?

The greens look fun.

I walked it the first time I played it, but not the second.  At the pro shop they (perhaps unscientifically) said that 2-3% of the people walk.  It is $16 cheaper to walk.

If you find it in the rocks, yes, if you are able to play it, you are allowed to play it.  There are no environmentally sensitive rocks on the course.  

[Andy Troeger]

Sean,
I would describe Engh's style as "showcasing the landscape" and not particularly fitting it. Its obviously not for everybody, but also pretty popular by all accounts.

To me, the land for these courses is perfectly suitable for a fun round of golf, but then again I'm not one who thinks that every course needs to look natural.

Different strokes for different folks I guess!

[Chris_Clouser]

Andy,

To me anything in that environment looks unnatural, so I agree that Engh's style looks fine there.  

I don't know if that's a backhanded compliment or not.  

I would be interested to see what he ends up doing on something that isn't in the middle of a desert.  I'm thinking strictly from a scale perspective, how his course will look if it doesn't have all of the eye-candy as a distraction from the work he puts on the ground.

[Kalen Braley]

Sean,

These are the only two courses of Enghs that I've played so I can only comment on them. I would agree they don't really flow with the landscape, but I'm guessing that he's not trying to achieve this.

My take on the courses are that they are just plain and simple a lot of fun to play.  Between the elevated tee shots, varied approaches to the greens, and undulationg greens there is always lots of adventure awaiting the golfer on the course. In addition, there is a lot of "eye candy" on the course, meaning nice views and other cool stuff to look at.  The 17th hole at RM would be an example of this.

While I don't think many would categorize Engh as a minimalist or fitting into the natural lay of the land, he builds fun courses that Matt appropriately labeled as "Indiana Jones" style courses.  I traveled 4-5 hours by car to play them and thought it was very much worth it.  

[Matt_Ward]

Andy:

Let me know where you stack Redlands Mesa among other public courses you have played in the USA.

I don't see the course being among the elite five public in all of Colorado -- for the reason that a number of other courses fly considerably below the radar.

One of the virtues of Redlands Mesa is that Engh's style clearly is unique and there are quite a few fun holes there. However, his subsequent work at LCR is a good bit more detailed and varied in terms of overall hole quality.

[Andy Troeger]

Andy,

To me anything in that environment looks unnatural, so I agree that Engh's style looks fine there.  

I don't know if that's a backhanded compliment or not.  

I would be interested to see what he ends up doing on something that isn't in the middle of a desert.  I'm thinking strictly from a scale perspective, how his course will look if it doesn't have all of the eye-candy as a distraction from the work he puts on the ground.

Chris,
Go play Tullymore, its about 5-6 hours from you probably, just north of Grand Rapids. If you could combine it with some of the other worthwhile courses in southern Michigan it would be a good 3-4 day trip.

Matt,
I haven't seen most of the other public courses in Colorado other than these two, so I really cannot compare much in state. Quite a few of the others are on the agenda.

I put Redlands Mesa higher than you out of what I have seen. I would put it behind (but only slightly) Paa-Ko and Black Mesa. Blackwolf Run and Harbour Town are my two favorite publics played. I'm not as big of a fan of Whistling Straits and Arcadia Bluffs as many people are, so I have LCR and RM around the same as those two. I would guess I'd put Redlands in the top five publics in CO, although top five overall might be a stretch just because of the amount of good golf in the state.

[Garland Bayley]

Let thumbs up = 1, neutral = 0, thumbs down = -1. The score comes to .333...
Don't know how you can get much more than a Doak 4 out of that!

[Kalen Braley]

Let thumbs up = 1, neutral = 0, thumbs down = -1. The score comes to .333...
Don't know how you can get much more than a Doak 4 out of that!

Garland,

The Doak scale does not include any type of numerical anlaysis on how you come up with the final number 1-10.  Its based more on an overall feel for the course, and thats why it doesn't match up to my thumbs up/thumbs down criteria either. To keep in my mind, my criteria was based on a "perfect" course.  Compared to a world class course, were the fairways disappointing?  Yes.  But when compared to 90% of other courses in the world they were just fine.  The same is true for the other categories that I had marked as just nuetral.  And yes, you can also imply that when I gave certain categories a thumbs up, in my opinion they were spectacular and top notch.

All that being said, was the course this?

7-An excellent course, worth checking out if you get anywhere within 100 miles. You can expect to find soundly designed, interesting holes, good course conditioning, and a pretty setting, if not necessarily anything unique to the world of golf.

In my opinion yes, and I even came from 300 miles away    Would it be worth a special trip from where you are?  I'm not sure, but it was certainly worth it to me.

[Garland Bayley]

I don't quite understand the concept of thumbs up compared to a perfect course. Does it mean better than perfect, or equal to perfect?

If I remember my Doak scale, I think 3 is an average course. I read your rating to be above average, with lots of averages (neutral).

I think 100 miles is relative. In the sparsely populated intermountain west, I would suggest 100 miles is really 500 miles. Apply 100 miles to the east coast, populated areas of California, and the British Isles. Don't apply it to remote areas of the west or in some places all courses become Doak 7s.

[Kalen Braley]

I don't quite understand the concept of thumbs up compared to a perfect course. Does it mean better than perfect, or equal to perfect?

If I remember my Doak scale, I think 3 is an average course. I read your rating to be above average, with lots of averages (neutral).

I think 100 miles is relative. In the sparsely populated intermountain west, I would suggest 100 miles is really 500 miles. Apply 100 miles to the east coast, populated areas of California, and the British Isles. Don't apply it to remote areas of the west or in some places all courses become Doak 7s.

We can discuss and analyze the Doak scale till we get blue in the face. But the reality is, its always going to be subjective of how well a course fits in based on a 1-2 line generic statement without defining everything.  I'm sure Tom had something more specific in mind, but when I read it all I can do is try to define and intrepret the words he wrote down.

And then there is the perspective aspect of it. What is or isn't "good", "soundly designed","interesting holes", or "pretty" probably varies alot from person to person and what they've seen. Ultimately, the Doak Scale only has one complete significance when its used, and thats when Tom uses it.

But I took a crack at it, and thats what I came up with.  I've already prefaced at least 2-3 times in my review that its my opinion and it is what it is I suppose.

[Garland Bayley]

So what are the great holes here? You really liked 2 and loved one. Are they the great holes? Are all three great holes, or just one?

[Kalen Braley]

So what are the great holes here? You really liked 2 and loved one. Are they the great holes? Are all three great holes, or just one?

There were 5 holes that I thought were great, most others really good, and none that were bad.  But that still gets us nowhere as thats not apart of the criteria.

[tlavin]

Thanks for the post!  The golf looks enjoyable, but there's already signs of a fair amount of "necessary evil" (i.e. housing) cropping up.  I'll bet that the natural landscape will be hard to see in five years.

[Brad Swanson]

From the Engh courses I have played, RedHawk Ridge and Fossil Trace) and those I have only seen in photos ( ), one of my biggest gripes with his work is the amount of containment surrounding the greensites he designs.  I know Jim has it in him to design good greensites with minimal/no containment (for example #4 at Fossil Trace), but all to often his greens sit in a bowl of turf surrounded dry scrub at the far periphery.  

Cheers,
Brad

[Wyatt Halliday]

Brad,

The containment surrounding the greens does become a bit repetitive, however I do prefer his style with puchbowls to the Von Hagge vision of tees, fairways, and elevated greens with containment.

[Andy Troeger]

Thanks for the post!  The golf looks enjoyable, but there's already signs of a fair amount of "necessary evil" (i.e. housing) cropping up.  I'll bet that the natural landscape will be hard to see in five years.

Terry,
Unfortunately you are correct on that. I do think the front at Lakota and the back at Redlands will be fairly "house-free" at least for awhile, but I'm sure eventually that more will be built. The front at Lakota is very severe, so it might be tougher to build homes there. The back has a fair amount already though, which is unfortunate.

[Kalen Braley]

Sean,

Thanks for the comments.  I don't think many would try to argue that Engh is a minimalist.  Alot of what he does seems to go for the "shock and awe" type effect combined with plenty of eye candy.  That being said his greens really are alot of fun to putt and play on, especially when they were running fast as at Redlands.

It is interesting that you picked the least protected green site at Redlands Mesa as the one you liked the most.

[Tim Pitner]

The bunkers that Sean identifies look like ball-saving bunkers to me.  I have to say that I'm not a big fan of the look of Engh's bunkers in general, although (to appease Matt Ward if nothing else), I will reserve judgment until actually playing LC and RM.

[Matt_Ward]

I always enjoy the learned thoughts from people on golf courses they have never played. The insights are truly penetrating and quite riveting.

The bunkers in the first two instances protect the player from going off into various unplayable lie situations. Nothing out of the norm and since I've played the holes in question a few times and can attest to the fact that they are quite good at preventing what I have just mentioned.

The so-called "visual nightmare" on the 2nd par-5 on the return side is also quite appropriate -- those going for the green in two need to be aware of what can happen if you come up short.

Engh is not going to be the "cup of tea" for the "I can only stomach classic designed golf course crowd" which has its certain few designers they prefer. Those who appreciate Engh likely enjoy a variety of hot' spicy foods and need to absorb more for their stomach than a steady grind of meat and potatos.

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