[Brent Hutto]

Apparently I was misinformed when I called the Pebble Beach reservations lines a few days before my trip in 2005. I asked rates and availability for Spyglass and Pebble and was given a (limited) selection of tee times to choose from at each one. They never asked if I was staying at the resort, which I was not.

In the end I chose Spyglass for about half the cost and because I knew the greens were just punched at Pebble. But it seems unlikely I mislead them about my (non) resort guest status. Maybe staying there is only a requirement for making reservations far in advance, does calling the week before count as a "walkup"?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Bob Huntley,

The cost to play golf at Pebble Beach is minor in comparison to the costs associated with travel, food and lodging when visiting from most locations.

Traveling a long distance to that area and not playing would be a mistake, it's a wonderful golf course.

[RJ_Daley]

Obviously, we are all big boys and can decide what sort of "once in a lifetime" things or events are worth what price according to our own comfort level.  

To my way of thinking, the issue Pat points out regarding travel to, lodging, food, and other tourist expenses are indeed as large or greater costs factors, in most cases.  

When you get to $500 a round, I think you are now actually talking about as much as most people would spend for a couple days lodging, food, and bev, and other things (if you stay at a Holiday Inn Express   )  So, to me, you are getting a few days of diversion and time to enjoy your $$$ spent on the fact of being somewhere interesting over time.  

To spend $500 for 5 hours of golf, doesn't compute to a worthwhile expense in my world... maybe it is OK and comfortable in yours.  

But, one final thought is that we ask the question if it is worth that kind of ping "once in a lifetime".  

With the exception of a Tom Doak or one of you other great students of golf and golf course architecture... who may be saying it is the "once in a lifetime" chance to experience a great golf course design; I ask what can you really get out of one fleeting play at such a course, other than views and an isolated smattering of the architecture?

I would imagine that you get to play once at PBGL and are under the gun to hit your shot and move on.  You aren't going to be allowed to hit a few "optional" shots to sample the design from different perspectives.  You are probably of average to slightly better than average as a skill golfer.  So, you will likely foozle a good % of your shots on the once in a lifetime chance to play.  So, you finish, have hit about a half dozen shots that you saw or recognized as the genius of a given great course like Pebble, Pine Valley, Pinehurst, etc., and when you are done, spent your $500 and associated costs of travel and lodging, what do you really have?  (take pictures!)  

I will play and pay at a place like Sand Hills, Sutton Bay,  (when invited) because it is actually good value.  And the journey there is part of the fun.  You get to stay for a moderate price, play all day, and eat well.  That is value.  

Paying $450 a night to pay $150 play and $75 replay at a Bandon (as I was recently quoted) is a humbug IMO.  Same with Pebble.  I'll pay to go to the area, see the beautiful sights as a tourist, and leave the "study" of the great golf course to watching it over time by watching toon-a-mints.  

But, to play once in a lifetime, is a fleeting exercise in kidding myself, to think I'd ever be able to really appreciate golf course design and architecture on one dicey round...  I don't kid myself that much. c

[John Kavanaugh]

I will play and pay at a place like Sand Hills, Sutton Bay,  (when invited) because it is actually good value.  And the journey there is part of the fun.  You get to stay for a moderate price, play all day, and eat well.  That is value.  

I have never been but have heard several "complaints" that the bill at Sand Hills while worth it does become rather steep quite quickly.  I'm guessing more than a winter trip to Bandon just based on what I have been told.

[Mike Hendren]

 What happened to PBGL that it went from a legendary ~$20 a round in the 1960s to today's price?  

Dick, a 7.5% annual rate of inflation would do the trick.

The good old days weren't always good,
and tomorrow's not as bad as it seams.
-William Joel

[Mike Hendren]

Having played the three courses at Bandon Dunes and Pebble Beach, I might be the only chump here that would take another round at Pebble Beach over three rounds at Bandon Dunes Resort.  In reality, I'll likely do neither as there is too big of a world out there.

I believe Pebble Beach is that good.

Mike

[Bob_Huntley]

Pebble Beach, close to $500.00.

Barbara Streisand Tickets in Italy $200-$1200.

To each his own.

Bob

[Wayne_Kozun]

 What happened to PBGL that it went from a legendary ~$20 a round in the 1960s to today's price?  

Dick, a 7.5% annual rate of inflation would do the trick.

Inflation has only averaged 4.7% from 1967-2006 but nominal GDP growth has been 7.3% so the growth in green fees has been about equivalent to the growth of the wealth of the country.

But that still will put the green fee at about $10,000 in 40 years at the same growth rate.

[Dan_Callahan]

$500 for 18 holes of golf. I could ski for a week in Aspen for that amount.

I'm perfectly happy knocking golf balls around the soccer field behind my house. Seems to me a round at Pebble has become more of a status symbol than a reflection of real value.

I like a great golf course as much as the next person. But there are hundreds of places I would love to see that charge a fraction of the cost of Pebble.

[Ted Kramer]

I played Pebble in 2000. I was 25 years old, 3 years out of college, and not making much money. I borrowed money from my 401k and maxed out 2 small credit cards to pay for my trip. Two of my best friends and I played 2 rounds at Spyglass, 1 round at Spanish Bay, and 1 round at Pebble. We stayed at the lodge and ate and drank well every night.

Looking back now, as a gainfully employed 32 year old with an 11 month old child, mortgage, and other real-life responsibilities making another trip like that almost impossible for me to take anytime soon, there is no chance that I would call that trip a mistake. It was "worth" every penny to me.

-Ted

[Bob_Huntley]

Ted,

Good on you. We should all remember that there are no pockets in a shroud.

Bob

[Jay Flemma]

Bob, I have played several course that I think are much better at a much lower price.  Pebble is great...but NO GOLF COURSE in America is worth more than $200.  That should be the ceiling.  "What the market will bear is bad for the game and is not egalitarian.

[Rick Shefchik]

This isn't Russia, is it Jay? No, this isn't Russia.

[Ted Kramer]

Bob, I have played several course that I think are much better at a much lower price.  Pebble is great...but NO GOLF COURSE in America is worth more than $200.  That should be the ceiling.  "What the market will bear is bad for the game and is not egalitarian.

While I certainly respect the opinions of those who state that certain things are too pricey for their tastes/liking, I can't agree with a comment as severe as the one you made above. Is that really your position?

-Ted

[Tom Huckaby]

Jay:

Name public courses that are MUCH better than Pebble Beach.  The lower price thing is obvious.... but MUCH better?  I can't think of a single one.

Private clubs don't count, because price there is so variable. Hell one can play Cypress Point for free if one's host picks up the tab.  

And you've stated before your desire for golf to be egalitarian.  That is noble... but it's pretty unrealistic, isn't it?  Golf never has been egalitarian and as much as it would be cool if it was, I don't see that as a possible future.

And Ted, allow me to concur with Bob - good on you as well - a great man I know once said "you can't put a price tag on a good time."  That wisdom has gotten me into debt, but allows me some great memories similar to yours... with very very few regrets.

TH

[Bob_Huntley]

Bob, I have played several course that I think are much better at a much lower price.  Pebble is great...but NO GOLF COURSE in America is worth more than $200.  That should be the ceiling.  "What the market will bear is bad for the game and is not egalitarian.

Jay,

I cannot believe a man of your erudition could come up with a statement quite like that. Whenever has the 'game' been egalitarian? Going back to the cradle at St. Andrews there was an incredible class distinction in golf.

Whatever happened to free choice? I hope you never voted for wage and price controls.

Bob

[Brent Hutto]

Of course all this supposes that playing Pebble Beach is a lifetime dream, worth doing everything in ones power to play. For my part, that's a considerable overstatement. While I certainly hope I play there one day it's on the "hope so" list and not the "lifetime dream" list.

But this discussion is enlightening even if you substitute "The Course of Your Dreams" for "Pebble Beach" in the title. For me, even that dream course (whatever it happens to be) is best saved for the day when I can enjoy it for more than one round and in the company of friends.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

To quote a friend of mine...who is also one of the partners...the debt will be paid off in about 4/5 years and then it is a cash cow...but that is the glory of this wonderful capital driven society is it not?

When the investors perchased the set up from the Japanese it was not exactly viewed as being a good investment, and each investor was actuallt told that..it was more of a "good club to be a member of" sort of thing...but hey it worked out for them.....and people keep on paying

[Ted Kramer]

Just to set the record straight, I don't subscribe to the "spend freely you never know if you're gonna get hit by a bus" theory of money management. I just recently left a private club because I didn't think that it was responsible for me, at this stage of my life, to be spending thousands of dollars a year on golf. I drive a piece of crap car, and and take the train to work to save on parking . . .

I'm not suggesting that people who choose against spending a ton of money on Pebble are making a mistake, I'm just saying that I chose to spend money that I didn't even have on a trip out to Monterey and haven't ever regretted it for one single second . . .not even when I was paying off those charge cards and eating pb and j for dinner 5 nights a week.

Different strokes . . .

-Ted

[Tom Huckaby]

Ted - that's understood - no one is taking this to silly extremes, I assume.

The point is more that some things are worth splurging on, and Pebble Beach is one of those things.

[Jim Nugent]

Inflation has only averaged 4.7% from 1967-2006 but nominal GDP growth has been 7.3% so the growth in green fees has been about equivalent to the growth of the wealth of the country.

A lot of that 7.3% figure comes from a population that is 50% bigger.  Nominal wealth per capita -- which seems to me a better measure -- has grown a lot less.  Pebble's prices have greatly outpaced wealth per capita.  

If I'm reading the figures right, PB's price would be around $220 or so, if it reflected the nominal rise in per capita income.  The actual price is about double that.  A lot more, actually, if you have to stay at the lodge there as well.  

But Pebble's prices have soared at hyper-inflation rates, compared to the general price level.  Overall prices were about 4.86 times higher in 2005, compared to 1966.  If Pebble cost $20 in 1966, and now costs $450, it has gone up 22.5 times.  Vastly more than inflation.  To keep pace with the overall CPI, Pebble's price would be around $100 now.  

Showing the figures per year is misleading IMO because it hides the huge impact of compounding.  

[Ted Kramer]

Ted - that's understood - no one is taking this to silly extremes, I assume.

The point is more that some things are worth splurging on, and Pebble Beach is one of those things.

I'll add good wine to the list of things worth splurging on . . .
What else is worth an occasional splurge?

-Ted

[RJ_Daley]

Bob, rest assured, under the theory of "different strokes", I wouldn't pay 200-1200 for BS tickets in Italy, NY, or Tel Aviv for even $5...  

I also go with Jay in his inclination that "what the market will bear is bad for the game".  

I dont think that is necessarily "egalitarian" however.  I think it is more a demonstration that the "market" being the folks and their mentality to respond as an economic market force is totally screwed up by outside influences whereby they have lost the ability or which retards their rationality to analyse the value of "stuff".

As for you guys imputing the % of growth since 1960s of a double sawbuck and such... all I know as a simple fool who don't figure that well;  I could reach in my then student wallet in the 60s and pull out a 20 among a few more, more readily than I can reach in my wallet and pull out 500 among any others that could be there now...  

[Steve Pozaric]

When I played a few years ago, total cost (with caddie) was around $425.  I looked at it as a little over a dollar a day for the next year.  Three years later, I still remember a lot about that round and have very fond memories of that place.  

To me it was worth it.  I have played a number of $200 ish resort courses that were not.  

Now, I was back in the area last December and had drinks and dinner at the lodge.  Being there really rekindled the desire to play there again.  Due to time constraints on that trip, however, it was not an option.  What got me to thinking was my wife is starting to play and wouldn't it be great to go there with her and my two girls once they are old enough.  Then I realized for the golf alone, it was over $2,000, plus lodging.  That's when it hit me it was pretty expensive.  

I think I need to play the powerball tonight.

[Bob_Huntley]

Dick,

When I reached these shores a US Postal Stamp was 5 cents, I think it is up to 41 cents now. The only products that seem to get cheaper are those that are electronic in nature.

Again, when I played golf upon arrival, I played Brookside No.1 in Pasadena, it was affordable. However the course did not pay for itself and was subsidized by the City Council. I am sure that there were many on-golfing taxpayers who thought that the money should be spent elsewhere. It would seem that Jay feels that our local supervisors should use taxpayer funds for the entertainment of their constituents. Where does it end?


Bob

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