[Matt_Ward]

I'm not speaking about when traveling to exotic or far away vacation spots.

I am speaking about your day-to-day golf activities. On a scale of 1-10 with 1 being representing the price portion is absolutely critical to 10 where price means little, if anything, what number would you apply for your daily play determinations?

One follow-up question -- if price matters at say the level 3, 2 or 1 -- then how often do you "treat" yourself to play something that's a good bit more than your comfort zone? For example, in a month's time would you play such a course(s) once ot twice or more?

And finally, how much does the overall architecture matter when compared to price? Again, if 1 represents the fact that price matters the most and 10 if the architecture is the key ingredient?

Many thanks -- more will follow once a number of people have responded.

Thanks ...

[Ken Moum]

I play at the second-tier country club, in a town with two country clubs and two publicly owned courses and s few daily-fee/membership courses.

When we moved here, price was clearly a consideration, but the fact that my club is a Ross, and the other one has too many trees was also a consideration.

When I pay to play, cost is ALWAYS a consideration. And I rarely see any point in "treating" myself to a round of bad golf at a too-hard golf course that costs too much money.

But then I am poor... relatively.

Even in Scotland last summer, the choices we made were often a balance of cost vs. possible joy. I fairly quickly eliminated most anything that cost more than TOC, as I figured it was the apex of golf for me. Troon was one casualty of that.

Our selection of Nairn, Brora, Boat, New, Jubilee, Lundin and North Berwick were all somewhat cost-driven.

Cruden and Dornoch had long been on my radar, so I might budged on cost, but didn't have to.

Ken

K

[George Pazin]

I'd say 3-4 for me.

But, really, value means a whole lot more than raw price. I'd pay the $200+ to play Oakmont in a heartbeat, I won't pay the $160 to play Olde Stonewall unless Huck flies out here and says that's the only place he's willing to play (please don't do that, Tom).

All other things being equal, price would be a 1, but how often is everything else equal?

[Robert Kimball]

Here in the Atlanta area -- as I am sure is similar to the Bay area, NY/NJ and others -- the daily fees can be pretty pricey, and the private clubs are very expensive or just flat-out unaccessable (at least for me ).
But, I have a standing agreement with the wife -- if a chance ever comes up to play an exclusive private or high-fee public, I won't back out.
I guess it comes down to one's priorities and what you think is worth it. For example, I had no problem plopping down the fees for Pasatiempo or Mid Ocean Club. To me, it was a worthwhile investment -- and this was before the restoration work at both clubs!! I was lucky to see Lookout Mtn. after Silva's work, and it was worth every penny!

[Tom Huckaby]

George:

I'm gonna be in Western PA May 16-17.  I have time for one round only.  I am dying to play this course called Olde Stonewall.  I got us a tee time.  I'll come pick you up.

 

[Bill Shamleffer]

Cost is critical.  I would say a 2 for me.  However, I have a modest income, my wife stays at home to take care of our 2 daughters, and we pay Catholic school tuition.

I am willing to sacrifice the higher priced golf courses for my family.  I only splurge about 1 to 2 times per year.  Otherwise, I keep my green fees below $40.00.

Although next summer I do want to treat myself to a round at Taconic out here in W. Mass.  (As a graduation gift to myself once I complete my part-time evening college studies.)

I having a feeling I will be in the minority on this issue.

[Peter Pallotta]

Matt
George P's post is a good and insightful one, I think.

Along the same lines, I'd say it would be a 2 or 3 for me, but with an asterick next to the number. And when you read the footnote it would say:

"In this particular golfing jurisdiction, the number of courses of any kind charging under $90 is quite small, and the number of interesting courses in this category even smaller. On the other hand, courses that charge between $90 and $130 is quite large (having grown remarkably over the last decade), though in general that growth has not been commensurate with a greater number/percentage of top-flight designs. In short, there are actually very few meaningful financial decisions to be made in terms of where to play; and this results in a downward pressure on the total number of rounds played of any kind."

Of course, that's just one particular golfers' exeperience in one particular golfing jurisdiction.

Peter  

[A.G._Crockett]

Matt,
Cost is absolutely crucial to me, certainly a 1 or a 2 on a scale of 10, with only travel time being an additional factor.  I belong to a private club because I play a lot of golf, and that is THE only affordable way to do it in the Atlanta market.

As the follow-up question:  I treat myself to a couple of special places each summer, knowing that it is a one-time deal, but even then the cost can't be exorbitant.  I would only go to triple figures on vacation, or to play at a private club that I don't normally have access to, and in both cases only then if the course is reknown in some way and is a "must see".

As to the architecture, unfortunately it only factors into the special cases of seeing a course for the first and possibly only time.  I am not in the financial position to either join a club based on the GCA, or to orient my vacations that way.  I just have to take it as it comes and pay attention to opportunities and values to see a variety of GCA.

Hope that helps.

[Jim Colton]

Cost isn't usually a deterrant for me to play a course that I want to play for the first time, but it definitely is a factor in whether I come back or not.  I will not play any course that I've played before that I don't consider to be a good value.  

[Jerry Kluger]

Matt: In the DC area day to day golf can be very expensive but it can be worth it.  A good public course in the area costs about $75 and up to $120 per round.  A couple of times a week during the season can be substantial.  Plus, I have two boys who play and there is no reduced rate on the weekends so public golf is expensive.  Add to that the fact that the average round is more than 4 1/2 hours at a public course.

Private clubs are not overly expensive but their location isn't always the best and location costs.  The monthly fees aren't that high considering the whole family gets to play and the pace of play is usually no more than 4 hours.  The clubs in the area charge initiation fees which are non-equity and if you leave you get back zero.  So a private club can start at about $15k and go to about $110K.  I am a trial member at a club which charges $17.5K but is 35 minutes from my house during non rush hours but during the week from my office I don't even try to get out there after 3 because of the traffic.  Another course which I would love to join is 5 minutes from my house and 20 minutes from my office at rush hour but is $75K - which is hard to convince my wife is okay as she is not a golfer.  

[Mike Nuzzo]

1. Memorial Park is $34.
2. Houston High end Daily Fee $75

Memorial Park is better, faster and cheaper and 15 minutes from my house.
Hard to not play all my public golf there.

I am price sensitive.
I would never play a $20 - $40 course that isn't memorial due to low quality.
I haven't played a $75 - 125 High end daily fee in years in Houston as they aren't better.

If there was a slightly better course than Memorial that cost 2-3 times as much I'd probably split my time between the two.
Blaketree fits that bill but is an hour away and I haven't been there in a long time.

For a significantly better course I'd be there almost exclusively - say Texas Tech at 2x the memorial price.

[Jason Topp]

At this stage in my life, the significant factors impacting where I play are (in order)

Playing partners
convienience (location and pace of play)
quality
cost

Unless it was extremely outlandish, I would not use cost as a basis to trump the other three factors (good or bad).  I think the other factors could be my sole reason for choosing a course.

[Kirk Gill]

Of course you understand going into this exercise that the audience here is generally quite well-travelled, quite well-heeled, and really really into architecture, correct?

Well, one out of three ain't bad.

I've only played three times outside the U.S., TOC, Ceann Sibeal, and Banff, so not particularly well-traveled as far as golf is concerned. Well-heeled? No.

So my take on Matt's question is, how much a course costs is very important (2 ?), but I don't always see a correlation between the cost of a public course and the quality of its architecture. I can play Riverdale Dunes (Dye, et. al.) or Murphy Creek (Kavanaugh) for half the price of Omni Interlocken (Graham/Panks) and still feel like I got to play the better course.

When I treat myself to something a bit more expensive, I'm probably more critical as well. Issues of poor design, conditioning, become a lot more important.

To analogize - I don't bring my McDonald's expectations to Morton's of Chicago, and visa versa.

[Kalen Braley]

Cost is important to everyone including me.  I'm pretty foruntate where I live that everything is under $40 with the exception of a couple of courses.

So with that criteria, I base my decisions more on what type of course I want to play and/or how far I want to drive to play it.

[Mike Hoak]

I tend to evaluate my golfing choices based on value rather than strict dollar figures.  I don't mind spending over $100 on a good course with solid architecture.  What I hate is paying alot for a poor experience.  Here in the DC area, it costs around $90 or more to play anything decent.  Now that I am a member of a private club, I've found that I have become even more picky when it comes to dropping serious coin on a day of golf.  I'm still okay with spending money to play a great course, but my days of paying $100 to play a slighly better than average public course are long gone.

I can also sympathize with Jerry's comments.  I too joined a club approximately 30 minutes fom my house because I genuinely liked the "country" club and the hefty initiation fee for the club almost literally down the street from my house was a no-go (we may even be talking about the same club).  My wife would have killed me.  

[David_Tepper]

Matt -

Here in the SF Bay Area, there is decent daily-fee golf available for $50-$75 on the weekends and $25-$50 weekdays. Those are the parameters for my spending. I guess you could put me down for at 2 or 3 in terms of being price sensitive.

I rarely spend more than that. One reason is that my game is so dismal these days that I don't see the point of going to Pasatiempo or down to the Monterey Peninsula to spend $100++ on green fees to shoot 98! If I was playing better, I might be tempted to treat myself to a splurge green fee more often.

In addition to price, my priorities in selecting a course include location, condition and pace of play, as well as the overall GCA of the course. I guess you could put me down for a 4 or 5 on this one.

Last time I played Pasatiempo (about 15 years ago), it took me almost 3 hours to play the front 9. I have not been back since.

DT    

[Mark Arata]

Mike, I used to live in Houston, and I love memorial park, (especially the exterior scenery around the jogging path in the spring), but you are a better man than I if you can get a tee time at that place.......I could never pull it off, I used to have to go out as a single and I had to wait an hour or more sometimes to even do that. Great course though.

In New Orleans, there is nothing public worth playing for under 50 bucks. I would join Metairie in a second if I wasnt married with 2 kids, but I am, so that is right out.

At the end of the day, if you want to play, you gots to pay.....whatever it costs to play that day is the price I pay. Just getting the time to play anymore is getting harder and harder each year.

[Doug Sobieski]

Price - 10 (I certainly don't have enough money to not care about price, but there are factors that allow me to overlook it, so it never enters into the equation)

Architecture - 8

I'll play a few times a summer at a goat ranch near my house. Play early at 6am, get home. But since I play so little golf, if I'm going to make a special effort to play it will normally be someplace that gets my interest for some reason.

It's rare for me to play just for the sake of playing

[Mike Nuzzo]

Mark,
While I do know the super, I join the lottery like the rest of the public golfers.  It is an on-line version.  Eventually you will get a good tee time - I do have a sometimes flexible work schedule.
I had a 10:00 tee time one recent saturday - I teed off with someone who had been waiting 3 hours on the walk up sheet.  He asked how I did it walking up 15 minutes before my time....
We played in about 4 hours - they have 10 min tee times and it is an easy walk.

The scenery is about the same... they do take up a lot of golf parking however.

[Russ Miller]

For me cost is pretty important - maybe a 3.  I try to stay under a certain dollar amount each month for golf.  If I play at a cheaper course, I can play 4 to 5 times a month; if I play at a more expensive course it's more like 2 times a month.  At this point I just like to play as much as possible, so I will usually choose to play a cheaper course more times a month instead of a more expensive course fewer times a month, even if I really like the more expensive course better.

I might splurge and go for the better/more expensive course once every other month.

 

[John Kavanaugh]

You gotta love how poor people are able to go to Scotland to golf.   I've never made it but I feel like I am just a push cart away.  One of the great things about living in the arm pit of America is that I can play either a Doak or a Liddy for under $20 at my leisure.  So, no I don't give a damn about price because it is all good round these parts.

[Tom Huckaby]

JK - when I first went to Scotland purely for golf - 1987 - poor people could afford it!  Hell the MOST we paid for any golf was at TOC and it was like $25 or something (or so I recall).

It's crazy-expensive now, as you likely know - at least for visitors to the famous courses.  They've figured out what they can charge crazy Americans and others at those.

[Marty Bonnar]

John,
at $2 to the £, I guess not too many poor people are visiting right now.
What is a poor person in your estimation? What would the earning level be to qualify one as a: 'comfortable', 2: 'well-off' and III: 'steenkin' reech'?

cheers,
FBD.

[Ken Moum]

You gotta love how poor people are able to go to Scotland to golf.

I assume you're talking about me.... been playing for 56 years, and only last year managed to arrange the trip.

I figure around these parts anyone who makes under 40K is poor -- relatively -- which is the word I used.

Ken

[John Kavanaugh]

As far as paying dues at a private club.  The golf is free...It's keeping other people off the course that is so damn expensive.

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